Sadly it will not even come close to the complexity AO deliverd and is therefor made more simplistic or to flower it up a bit 'user friendly'.
They promissed everyone to be just as viable* just going on personal preference this is good concerning to feat trees but bad when it comes abilities as they have to make such drastic choices in development.
*(i said viable not equal or just aswell on each and every level, there will be a difference but it's not going to be as in WoW or others where 'the flavor of the month > all other setups)
There's a plus side to this all, it enchances PvP and PvE experiences from low to mid to high level.
As there are no 'pures' which abuse the freedom to create abnormal results, you can almost say it's allowed exploiting to some extent.
Add to this that every level range in PvP can be balanced so that it's not just about 'the end game'(tm) but during your progression you can have fun aswell in instanced PvP mini games and in world PvP if one choses to play on a FFA server.
Sadly 'mainstream' mmo's pointed out that those that actully like and not just say they like to do so but actully do want to spent loads of time in character creation, advancement are in the minority at this time and i don't see any sandbox game (mmo) being released any time soon.
Also on 'moron' developers, first of news letters aren't writen by developers but by community managers and those that are active know there's a good feedback between developers and future subscribers.
Final note: for Character progression don't expect AO skill system but do expect that you'll have to think about your skill choices general, class tree and general tree, it's far boring and randomly mindless selecting them won't benefit anyone.
ps: why do people keep throwing in 'nudity' as a major factor of this game, starts to look as nit picking, seems everyone that isn't really interested in this game keeps throwing this in as a 'valid' argument.
WTF? three skill trees per class? where have i seen that before? ooh i can't remeber *cough* WoW*cough*
man that pisses me off. inescapable wow cloning going on everwhere!
i can totally see Aoc's battle plan for sub victory over wow, and war. wow=wow war=wow+advanced pvp AoC=wow -fantasy races+advanced pvp+titties = >all other wow clones todate.
wtg Aoc!! *begins to pray that darkfall may actually exist... and is as they say.*
Hmm, I find it amazing how you can take 1 aspect of a game and draw a curtain completely around the entire games structure and rubber stamp a label.
Its got swords? OMGWTF!!!!!! its a wow clone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WTF? three skill trees per class? where have i seen that before? ooh i can't remeber *cough* WoW*cough*
man that pisses me off. inescapable wow cloning going on everwhere!
i can totally see Aoc's battle plan for sub victory over wow, and war. wow=wow war=wow+advanced pvp AoC=wow -fantasy races+advanced pvp+titties = >all other wow clones todate.
wtg Aoc!! *begins to pray that darkfall may actually exist... and is as they say.*
Hmm, I find it amazing how you can take 1 aspect of a game and draw a curtain completely around the entire games structure and rubber stamp a label.
Its got swords? OMGWTF!!!!!! its a wow clone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I couldn't agree more. It's amazing how people get on here and whine about the people that whine. If you haven't played the game, then you are just guessing on how good it will or will not be. It's going to be a great game. The combat system is getting away from the industry standard of auto attack, hit skill buttons. You will have to react, you will have to use your head to be the most effective. How could this be a wow clone? Also, speak your insults correctly, EQ started the whole genre, and most of everything out now is based off of that.
Simplifying things is not always a bad thing. I would rather be able to understand my entire character easier, than to have to spend countless hours researching every little detail instead of playing the damn game! I say go to WAR, we won't miss you a bit in AOC!
"We are putting a tremendous amount of effort into making character development in Age of Conan something...easy to understand."
Meh....you guys lost me with that one. That and the instant respawn in pvp. Not to mention how limited pvp is.
So far for new mmo Fallen Earth has my attention. EVE is my game now.
AOC tried to market for adults, but the whole nude women is just a gimmick to draw hormonal teens justified by saying it's part of the storyline.
I'll get my fill of boobs from my woman at home thanks. I want a good sandbox mmo with freedom in character development. PVP that has risk, without this insta respawn so you just run right back. O wait I just explained EVE didn't I
The best way to manage stats and skills is, you raise what you use, the more you use, the more it raises (Ala Elder Scrolls series). Other than that is just a poorer system.
Meh... I think most folks are like me. We come to get the latest information on games that sound interesting.
If we have a few minutes, we look at what other folks are writing in the forums. We don't really try to reduce things to a super distilled label and we don't believe everything anyone else says. And we know these are far to complicated to be reduced to stereotypes.
This is a game I'm definitely going to try. Whether or not I keep playing depends entirely on my play experience. I hope it rocks though. I'd very much enjoy an MMO with most of the kids filtered out.
It's a good thing I'm not in charge of these things or your max level would be equal to your RL age. That would be the level cap.
Its more of a feel of restriction vs freedom that people disprove of. I don't like it to much either that there allocated automaticlly. I prefer having full customization over my character to play him as I see fit, and what fits my mentality, then to pick and choose from a list.
This is the biggest piece of dribble when talking about puting points in strenght or agility, LOL!!
Stat manipulation (by way of puting points in a given attribute) is the biggest immersion killer in any RPG, it feels artificial and excely.
The decision is predetermined by Funcom. There method facilitates fast and easy decisions that are likely to be balanced according to the judgement of the game’s developer, but doesn’t allow for variation if not combined with other options. In an extreme case, characters are completely predesigned. Another option however, is to let the player make decisions, normally within clearly defined restrictions of cause. These restrictions should allowing players to distribute a number of character points among various statistics. I just a shame that Funcom don't allow player choice for create there own unquie character.
Its more of a feel of restriction vs freedom that people disprove of. I don't like it to much either that there allocated automaticlly. I prefer having full customization over my character to play him as I see fit, and what fits my mentality, then to pick and choose from a list.
This is the biggest piece of dribble when talking about puting points in strenght or agility, LOL!!
Stat manipulation (by way of puting points in a given attribute) is the biggest immersion killer in any RPG, it feels artificial and excely.
Exactly.
MMO gamers are, without a doubt, the most melodramatic of the bunch. Too much concern over not being a unique little snowflake, and not enough concern over what is best for the game.
The only thing that concerns me about AoC's fan base is the lack of faith in the devs. Yes, we all understand that AoC character system beinin and redundant just like any other mmo out there (except for pre-NGE SWG), but why must we demolish or demoralize the game before release. AoC's double delay demonstrates one thing, Funcom wants to get this one right.
Its more of a feel of restriction vs freedom that people disprove of. I don't like it to much either that there allocated automaticlly. I prefer having full customization over my character to play him as I see fit, and what fits my mentality, then to pick and choose from a list.
This is the biggest piece of dribble when talking about puting points in strenght or agility, LOL!!
Stat manipulation (by way of puting points in a given attribute) is the biggest immersion killer in any RPG, it feels artificial and excely.
Exactly.
MMO gamers are, without a doubt, the most melodramatic of the bunch. Too much concern over not being a unique little snowflake, and not enough concern over what is best for the game.
Really?. People want to unique and want to administrate there characters attribute like STR, DEX , CON etc. But if that is not important, then I guess there is no need for a complex character customization either, because in the end it dont improve you character at all. You charcter will maybe look be better, but you wont be any better to PvP.
Personally, I liked Tabula Rasa's system for leveling. Only time will tell if they all evolve into cookie-cutter, but if they can keep all the branches and skills viable and effective, I think it's one of the best all-around systems. The clone system provides for the mistakes you might make, whether it be a class you don't really like or a build in that class you screwed up.
Too bad it isn't based around PvP. Ahh well. Here's to hoping.
Really?. People want to unique and want to administrate there characters attribute like STR, DEX , CON etc. But if that is not important, then I guess there is no need for a complex character customization either, because in the end it dont improve you character at all. You charcter will maybe look be better, but you wont be any better to PvP.
Battlekruse just because base stats are automatically distributed doesn't mean character customization and advancement is dumbed down or lacks all complexity. You still have various class choices, prestige class choice, weapon types to focus on, skill points to spend as you like, 3 feet trees that are very dynamic and intricate (from the examples shown so far, each feat tree has 4 branches within them, which is far better and offers more options and choice then say WoW's talent system.) I say so what if you cant custom spend your 6 odd base stats. You've got tuns of other stuff to play with to make your character unique.
I like what AOC has done for the charc. custimization. Not only is it going to be a more balanced character but so will others. I mean look at WOW all you had to be was a paly ,or a priest and you could kick everyone's ass. I believe with the methode that they are doing it gives everyone that that fair chance.
I do belive that they are going to make the character development back and forth before they settle for anything, it's still some time before release and the March date isn't set in stone yet
I prefer the way they had it before in Anarchy Online, but since they want to cater to the average MMO crowd oh well.. I hope they don't sell all the way out though.
------------------------------ You see, every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with their surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You spread to an area, and you multiply, and you multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.-Mr.Smith
Originally posted by Battlekruse I just a shame that Funcom don't allow player choice for create there own unquie character.
Everyone wants to be unique, BUT nobody wants to adapt to other unique players. For the sake of easieness they have to be cookie cutter.
I respeced a character in the game i currenty play. I have been a fine follower of the rules, but now i broke almost any rule for my class. I am quite unique now and my class performs imho better now. The problem is, others cant play with me. They do not understand and they cant be bothered to try and adapt to my unique gameplay. Result is: Groups rarely want to team with me and i most probably never will get any spot in a raid.
AoC has skills like AO. They aren't the 'bread & butter' of character development like they are in AO, but they are in. Stuff like Perception, Hiding, Bandaging, etc. It's definitely more basic then AO's skills but it also has Feats, which are designed in a tree with 3 feat trees per class, kind of a mix of WoW talents, only less class-changing and more class-focusing as well as far more complex and variable, each tree having 4 branches instead of starting at 4 and whittling down to 1. It's also somewhat like AO's Perks, only a more graphical 'tree' style, but the guts are quite similar it appears.
So yea, AoC does appear to lack the shear complexity for the sake of complexity of AO, but it's not a baby MMOG any simpleton can master in 2 days either. It still looks to have a good deal of complexity to it. AO's complexity was overbearing for some, (though I personally loved that part of the game,) and is one of the primary reasons it was never really financially a big success. Though it does remain one of the most active of the 'classic' MMOGs, easily more active then any other besides perhaps EQ. But I hear even EQ is a ghost town these days, but AO certain is not.
The D&D dorks stick out like a hole in the head in this thread.
The fact is, in UO and AC, with all the options of stat distribution and skills, everyone basically ended up with the same few templates. MOST people don't want to bother MIN/MAXing every tiny little detail esspecially when the balance of the game suffers greatly for it. UO and AC were NEVER even remotely balanced. There were templates that were far too powerful and when the nerfs came, the trickle down effect crippled everything. Skill based systems have never worked and never will. Too many variables.
Let the developers work out the kinks. In skill based systems the developers let the players figure it all out for them. No thanks. I prefer to play a sem-finished game, not one in a continuous state of beta.
AmazingAveryAge of Conan AdvocateMemberUncommonPosts: 7,188
Don't know if anyone else caught this today but there are some more dev comments on the subject.
Look, I believe in the class system, just that it isn't powered right.
Think of it this way, your character is a car. Attributes are the engine, it represents the raw power of the car. However, the class is the way the car handles that power, how the car steers, brakes and generally feels. Feats are the stuff like nitro, roof scoop, audio system and perhaps a mini-machine gun for the lulz.
Now the point is, the class decides in a great part what you really are, but people need to imprint their own unique ideas upon their characters.
Look at DnD, age old system, still unbeaten in breadth. It's completely class based, and they are as unique as possible, yet people can still customize a lot.
When I said attribute allocation, I didn't mean completely free. For ex, every class has 2 main attributes, and 4 secondary ones. Attributes get a raise every 6 levels, starting at 20, once you have a final class, so it wouldn't drown the newbs with "unnecessary" choices. This means 10 attrib points to spend (above the original setup). Let's figure out some restrictions. Like you must spend every third attrib point on a secondary attribute ... There are ways to halt min-maxers you know.
Taking out attribute allocation, because it causes problems is analogous to taking out gold, because of the gold seller and inflation problems. It is NOT a solution, it's a weak workaround.
I don't really understand how what we have is different than from what you are saying.
When you choose to play a class in DnD you choose your basic overall role or set of abilities.
This is the same in Conan
When you raise attributes you customize what your characters focus is
This is the same in Conan
When you train skill points you customize what your characters focus is
This is the same in Conan
When you choose your feats you get your biggest changes in what makes your character unique in DnD
This is the same in Conan
Just because the interface looks familiar does not mean the system is not there for you to make a unique character. Using "other games" as an example the problem with the systems was not the systems themselves but the fact that the systems were not wide enough to offer a useful amount of variety. The Conan system is much much wider in its encouragement of experimenting and different methods of setting up your character.
__________________
Athelan-NPC/Monster Designer, Behavioral Control Center/Combat Guru, Age of Conan
Wow, did you just confirm, Athelan, that the players WILL be able to raise their attributes in AoC, rather than being forced to have the game automatically raise attributes for them?
I don't see any other way to read your statement. Because when you say 'you raise attributes' you can't mean 'the game raises them for you'. This must be a confirmation, then, that the players, rather than the game, can also raise attributes and decide which attributes to raise or put points into.
Am I reading that right?
I believe it is both, but I could be mistaken. Some raising is done automatically as you level and some points are given to custom distribution. But whether or not you can put extra points into con vs str vs dex and the impacts those have (they do have a significant one) is not really the point, it does not change whether or not the whole system "has no character development" or is "a copy of other games" You would be hard pressed to find any sort of character development mechanic that could not be attributed somewhere.
The problem is people, with no understanding of how things intertwine want something where they get to merely choose a cool character concept then everything is up to them. Complete manual attribute placement, skill based system letting them choose anything, wield any weapons etc. So they can be whatever they want. We'd all love to have that system as players, but the intricacies of how character development has to tie into everything else in the game makes that an exponentially more difficult goal. An MMO is like a 3 story tall Jenga tower being carefully constructed. Every piece sits on top of everything else.
__________________
Athelan-NPC/Monster Designer, Behavioral Control Center/Combat Guru, Age of Conan
Thanks for the quick response. I think if it is a mix, and players do have some choice over their stats, this will go a long way to helping alleviate some of the fears people have about customizing their characters. So definitely, this is something you want to let people know; it is very encouraging.
Cheers, and good luck with all your work.
I don't really think so honestly. Mainly because my experience has been people will simply start having fears about something else. Waiting for an MMO is always all butterfly's in the stomach and feelings that go back and forth between expectation and worry. And in the end none of it will matter until you actually play the released game and find out if it captures that magic essence for you that sucks you into the world.
__________________
Athelan-NPC/Monster Designer, Behavioral Control Center/Combat Guru, Age of Conan
Comments
Yes, this is one of the downsides of the game.
Sadly it will not even come close to the complexity AO deliverd and is therefor made more simplistic or to flower it up a bit 'user friendly'.
They promissed everyone to be just as viable* just going on personal preference this is good concerning to feat trees but bad when it comes abilities as they have to make such drastic choices in development.
*(i said viable not equal or just aswell on each and every level, there will be a difference but it's not going to be as in WoW or others where 'the flavor of the month > all other setups)
There's a plus side to this all, it enchances PvP and PvE experiences from low to mid to high level.
As there are no 'pures' which abuse the freedom to create abnormal results, you can almost say it's allowed exploiting to some extent.
Add to this that every level range in PvP can be balanced so that it's not just about 'the end game'(tm) but during your progression you can have fun aswell in instanced PvP mini games and in world PvP if one choses to play on a FFA server.
Sadly 'mainstream' mmo's pointed out that those that actully like and not just say they like to do so but actully do want to spent loads of time in character creation, advancement are in the minority at this time and i don't see any sandbox game (mmo) being released any time soon.
Also on 'moron' developers, first of news letters aren't writen by developers but by community managers and those that are active know there's a good feedback between developers and future subscribers.
Final note: for Character progression don't expect AO skill system but do expect that you'll have to think about your skill choices general, class tree and general tree, it's far boring and randomly mindless selecting them won't benefit anyone.
ps: why do people keep throwing in 'nudity' as a major factor of this game, starts to look as nit picking, seems everyone that isn't really interested in this game keeps throwing this in as a 'valid' argument.
Warhammer Online looks infinitely more fun than AoC.
Spoils of War - The quickest way of ending a war is to lose it.
Yeah, I guess you could say that...
If you want to play WoW again.
I mean, if cartoon world is your thing, and a dumbed down combat system, have fun
What has WAR done for the genre, anything new in that game? Nah, didn't think so.
|Mortal Online|Gnostaria|
Hmm, I find it amazing how you can take 1 aspect of a game and draw a curtain completely around the entire games structure and rubber stamp a label.
Its got swords? OMGWTF!!!!!! its a wow clone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hmm, I find it amazing how you can take 1 aspect of a game and draw a curtain completely around the entire games structure and rubber stamp a label.
Its got swords? OMGWTF!!!!!! its a wow clone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I couldn't agree more. It's amazing how people get on here and whine about the people that whine. If you haven't played the game, then you are just guessing on how good it will or will not be. It's going to be a great game. The combat system is getting away from the industry standard of auto attack, hit skill buttons. You will have to react, you will have to use your head to be the most effective. How could this be a wow clone? Also, speak your insults correctly, EQ started the whole genre, and most of everything out now is based off of that.
Simplifying things is not always a bad thing. I would rather be able to understand my entire character easier, than to have to spend countless hours researching every little detail instead of playing the damn game! I say go to WAR, we won't miss you a bit in AOC!
"We are putting a tremendous amount of effort into making character development in Age of Conan something...easy to understand."
Meh....you guys lost me with that one. That and the instant respawn in pvp. Not to mention how limited pvp is.
So far for new mmo Fallen Earth has my attention. EVE is my game now.
AOC tried to market for adults, but the whole nude women is just a gimmick to draw hormonal teens justified by saying it's part of the storyline.
I'll get my fill of boobs from my woman at home thanks. I want a good sandbox mmo with freedom in character development. PVP that has risk, without this insta respawn so you just run right back. O wait I just explained EVE didn't I
If I wanted simple I would play WOW
SHOHADAKU
The best way to manage stats and skills is, you raise what you use, the more you use, the more it raises (Ala Elder Scrolls series). Other than that is just a poorer system.
Meh... I think most folks are like me. We come to get the latest information on games that sound interesting.
If we have a few minutes, we look at what other folks are writing in the forums. We don't really try to reduce things to a super distilled label and we don't believe everything anyone else says. And we know these are far to complicated to be reduced to stereotypes.
This is a game I'm definitely going to try. Whether or not I keep playing depends entirely on my play experience. I hope it rocks though. I'd very much enjoy an MMO with most of the kids filtered out.
It's a good thing I'm not in charge of these things or your max level would be equal to your RL age. That would be the level cap.
-Carneros
This is the biggest piece of dribble when talking about puting points in strenght or agility, LOL!!
Stat manipulation (by way of puting points in a given attribute) is the biggest immersion killer in any RPG, it feels artificial and excely.
The decision is predetermined by Funcom. There method facilitates fast and easy decisions that are likely to be balanced according to the judgement of the game’s developer, but doesn’t allow for variation if not combined with other options. In an extreme case, characters are completely predesigned. Another option however, is to let the player make decisions, normally within clearly defined restrictions of cause. These restrictions should allowing players to distribute a number of character points among various statistics. I just a shame that Funcom don't allow player choice for create there own unquie character.
This is the biggest piece of dribble when talking about puting points in strenght or agility, LOL!!
Stat manipulation (by way of puting points in a given attribute) is the biggest immersion killer in any RPG, it feels artificial and excely.
Exactly.MMO gamers are, without a doubt, the most melodramatic of the bunch. Too much concern over not being a unique little snowflake, and not enough concern over what is best for the game.
The only thing that concerns me about AoC's fan base is the lack of faith in the devs. Yes, we all understand that AoC character system beinin and redundant just like any other mmo out there (except for pre-NGE SWG), but why must we demolish or demoralize the game before release. AoC's double delay demonstrates one thing, Funcom wants to get this one right.
This is the biggest piece of dribble when talking about puting points in strenght or agility, LOL!!
Stat manipulation (by way of puting points in a given attribute) is the biggest immersion killer in any RPG, it feels artificial and excely.
Exactly.MMO gamers are, without a doubt, the most melodramatic of the bunch. Too much concern over not being a unique little snowflake, and not enough concern over what is best for the game.
Really?. People want to unique and want to administrate there characters attribute like STR, DEX , CON etc. But if that is not important, then I guess there is no need for a complex character customization either, because in the end it dont improve you character at all. You charcter will maybe look be better, but you wont be any better to PvP.
Personally, I liked Tabula Rasa's system for leveling. Only time will tell if they all evolve into cookie-cutter, but if they can keep all the branches and skills viable and effective, I think it's one of the best all-around systems. The clone system provides for the mistakes you might make, whether it be a class you don't really like or a build in that class you screwed up.
Too bad it isn't based around PvP. Ahh well. Here's to hoping.
Battlekruse just because base stats are automatically distributed doesn't mean character customization and advancement is dumbed down or lacks all complexity. You still have various class choices, prestige class choice, weapon types to focus on, skill points to spend as you like, 3 feet trees that are very dynamic and intricate (from the examples shown so far, each feat tree has 4 branches within them, which is far better and offers more options and choice then say WoW's talent system.) I say so what if you cant custom spend your 6 odd base stats. You've got tuns of other stuff to play with to make your character unique.
If I can't manipulate my stats by using certain skills, clicking the + next to strenght is boring and lame, you can smug away all you want.
I like what AOC has done for the charc. custimization. Not only is it going to be a more balanced character but so will others. I mean look at WOW all you had to be was a paly ,or a priest and you could kick everyone's ass. I believe with the methode that they are doing it gives everyone that that fair chance.
I do belive that they are going to make the character development back and forth before they settle for anything, it's still some time before release and the March date isn't set in stone yet
I prefer the way they had it before in Anarchy Online, but since they want to cater to the average MMO crowd oh well.. I hope they don't sell all the way out though.
------------------------------
You see, every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with their surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You spread to an area, and you multiply, and you multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.-Mr.Smith
i dont see how a HUGE problem gamers have with the crappy toon development cant be fixed, it would all be fixed with 1 easy step...
Make the Character Development really complitacted and unique......You ready for the step?
Step 1.......Allow people to change/respec without penalty as often as needed......ZOMG that was sooooo friggin hard!!!!!
Devs i think are childlike themselves is why they make it so easy lol
I respeced a character in the game i currenty play. I have been a fine follower of the rules, but now i broke almost any rule for my class. I am quite unique now and my class performs imho better now. The problem is, others cant play with me. They do not understand and they cant be bothered to try and adapt to my unique gameplay. Result is: Groups rarely want to team with me and i most probably never will get any spot in a raid.
Whatfor was uniqueness again ?
I remember a time when I was certain AoC would be a real next gen game with a unigue view on how games are played and new directions.
I should have known better.
AoC has skills like AO. They aren't the 'bread & butter' of character development like they are in AO, but they are in. Stuff like Perception, Hiding, Bandaging, etc. It's definitely more basic then AO's skills but it also has Feats, which are designed in a tree with 3 feat trees per class, kind of a mix of WoW talents, only less class-changing and more class-focusing as well as far more complex and variable, each tree having 4 branches instead of starting at 4 and whittling down to 1. It's also somewhat like AO's Perks, only a more graphical 'tree' style, but the guts are quite similar it appears.
So yea, AoC does appear to lack the shear complexity for the sake of complexity of AO, but it's not a baby MMOG any simpleton can master in 2 days either. It still looks to have a good deal of complexity to it. AO's complexity was overbearing for some, (though I personally loved that part of the game,) and is one of the primary reasons it was never really financially a big success. Though it does remain one of the most active of the 'classic' MMOGs, easily more active then any other besides perhaps EQ. But I hear even EQ is a ghost town these days, but AO certain is not.
The D&D dorks stick out like a hole in the head in this thread.
The fact is, in UO and AC, with all the options of stat distribution and skills, everyone basically ended up with the same few templates. MOST people don't want to bother MIN/MAXing every tiny little detail esspecially when the balance of the game suffers greatly for it. UO and AC were NEVER even remotely balanced. There were templates that were far too powerful and when the nerfs came, the trickle down effect crippled everything. Skill based systems have never worked and never will. Too many variables.
Let the developers work out the kinks. In skill based systems the developers let the players figure it all out for them. No thanks. I prefer to play a sem-finished game, not one in a continuous state of beta.
Don't know if anyone else caught this today but there are some more dev comments on the subject.
Think of it this way, your character is a car. Attributes are the engine, it represents the raw power of the car. However, the class is the way the car handles that power, how the car steers, brakes and generally feels. Feats are the stuff like nitro, roof scoop, audio system and perhaps a mini-machine gun for the lulz.
Now the point is, the class decides in a great part what you really are, but people need to imprint their own unique ideas upon their characters.
Look at DnD, age old system, still unbeaten in breadth. It's completely class based, and they are as unique as possible, yet people can still customize a lot.
When I said attribute allocation, I didn't mean completely free. For ex, every class has 2 main attributes, and 4 secondary ones. Attributes get a raise every 6 levels, starting at 20, once you have a final class, so it wouldn't drown the newbs with "unnecessary" choices. This means 10 attrib points to spend (above the original setup). Let's figure out some restrictions. Like you must spend every third attrib point on a secondary attribute ... There are ways to halt min-maxers you know.
Taking out attribute allocation, because it causes problems is analogous to taking out gold, because of the gold seller and inflation problems. It is NOT a solution, it's a weak workaround.
I don't really understand how what we have is different than from what you are saying.
When you choose to play a class in DnD you choose your basic overall role or set of abilities.
This is the same in Conan
When you raise attributes you customize what your characters focus is
This is the same in Conan
When you train skill points you customize what your characters focus is
This is the same in Conan
When you choose your feats you get your biggest changes in what makes your character unique in DnD
This is the same in Conan
Just because the interface looks familiar does not mean the system is not there for you to make a unique character. Using "other games" as an example the problem with the systems was not the systems themselves but the fact that the systems were not wide enough to offer a useful amount of variety. The Conan system is much much wider in its encouragement of experimenting and different methods of setting up your character.
I don't see any other way to read your statement. Because when you say 'you raise attributes' you can't mean 'the game raises them for you'. This must be a confirmation, then, that the players, rather than the game, can also raise attributes and decide which attributes to raise or put points into.
Am I reading that right?
I believe it is both, but I could be mistaken. Some raising is done automatically as you level and some points are given to custom distribution. But whether or not you can put extra points into con vs str vs dex and the impacts those have (they do have a significant one) is not really the point, it does not change whether or not the whole system "has no character development" or is "a copy of other games" You would be hard pressed to find any sort of character development mechanic that could not be attributed somewhere.
The problem is people, with no understanding of how things intertwine want something where they get to merely choose a cool character concept then everything is up to them. Complete manual attribute placement, skill based system letting them choose anything, wield any weapons etc. So they can be whatever they want. We'd all love to have that system as players, but the intricacies of how character development has to tie into everything else in the game makes that an exponentially more difficult goal. An MMO is like a 3 story tall Jenga tower being carefully constructed. Every piece sits on top of everything else.
Cheers, and good luck with all your work.
I don't really think so honestly. Mainly because my experience has been people will simply start having fears about something else. Waiting for an MMO is always all butterfly's in the stomach and feelings that go back and forth between expectation and worry. And in the end none of it will matter until you actually play the released game and find out if it captures that magic essence for you that sucks you into the world.