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poll: will DFO still be in development 5 years from now?

baphametbaphamet omaha, NEPosts: 2,838Member Uncommon

just curious what the fans here think, do you hardcore DFO fans think this game will be released soon?

do you think this game is stuck in development for the next 5+ years? will it ever be released at all?

this is not flame bait so please stay on topic, i personally still hold a little hope that one day this game will be released (or one similar).

but i will say that this game has been stuck in limbo for quite some time and sometimes wonder where this game will be at five years from now.

your thoughts?

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Comments

  • outlaw101outlaw101 DartfordPosts: 351Member

    Well the game has been in development for nearly 4 years now, even though the game has alot of features i doubt it warrents 9 years development, I would vote in your poll but i won't degrade myself to saying 'evar'



    So i created a non-biased poll

    "Don't hold breath about another KOTOR game coming from Bioware" - Chris Preistly

    "Bioware is more intrested in pursueing development of it's own Intellectual properties"

    - James Henly

  • daarcodaarco GavlePosts: 4,497Member

    I spoke with some non DF fans yeatsrday about the time needed to make a MMO. They play LOTRO, wich took about 5 years of development.

    The DF build we know today begun in 2003, so thats 4 year of development. And to be honest.....the features in DF is about 10 times more advanced then LOTRO....so why how could the DF devs do it in les then 5 years..??

    If they would.....they would to be some *¤#"¤#"# programing masters?

  • Zaraki199Zaraki199 dallas, VTPosts: 101Member

    Well we dont really know what they ahve in but they did say its almsot feature complete they work there fing butts off XD

  • ComanComan Hattem, AKPosts: 2,032Member Uncommon

    I sure hope so. It is an MMO after all and they are always in development. I do belive though it will be released within 2 years. Most likely end 2008, early 2009. With an Beta starting summer 2008.

  • ShanniaShannia Huntingdon, NYPosts: 2,096Member

    Originally posted by daarco


    I spoke with some non DF fans yeatsrday about the time needed to make a MMO. They play LOTRO, wich took about 5 years of development.
    The DF build we know today begun in 2003, so thats 4 year of development. And to be honest.....the features in DF is about 10 times more advanced then LOTRO....so why how could the DF devs do it in les then 5 years..??
    If they would.....they would to be some *¤#"¤#"# programing masters?

    Does anyone know of a single person on the Darkfall Online staff that is considered an MMOG expert by the industry as a whole?  From the names that we do know, the is a first swing gig for all of them.  I can't find any previous success stories here.  Am I right or wrong?

     

    Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware

    "Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."

  • ButcherBillButcherBill los angeles, CAPosts: 32Member

    Not that I know of....

     

  • coder1024coder1024 Eastern PA, PAPosts: 56Member

    TF2 was recently released and was apparently 9 years in development.  And people think DFO is vapor?  please :-)

  • SLI2000SLI2000 Boise, IDPosts: 104Member

    Team Fortress 2 was not in continued development for 9 straight years. I am pretty sure it was placed on the back burner for many years then finally picked up again and completed.

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member

    Originally posted by daarco


    I spoke with some non DF fans yeatsrday about the time needed to make a MMO. They play LOTRO, wich took about 5 years of development.
    The DF build we know today begun in 2003, so thats 4 year of development. And to be honest.....the features in DF is about 10 times more advanced then LOTRO....so why how could the DF devs do it in les then 5 years..??
    If they would.....they would to be some *¤#"¤#"# programing masters?
    How are the features more advanced? 



    I'm simply asking you to clarify, not accusing nor flaming you sir.

    The features are 'different' but I don't see them being more 'advanced. '

     

  • coder1024coder1024 Eastern PA, PAPosts: 56Member
    Originally posted by SLI2000


    Team Fortress 2 was not in continued development for 9 straight years. I am pretty sure it was placed on the back burner for many years then finally picked up again and completed.



    The makers of TF2 describe it themselves as being 9 years in the making, so they're probably right.  I know they redid stuff and redid stuff again over the years and changed the art direction, etc.  I'm just pointing out that a long development cycle doesn't imply vapor.

  • coder1024coder1024 Eastern PA, PAPosts: 56Member

    Originally posted by heerobya


     
    Originally posted by daarco


    I spoke with some non DF fans yeatsrday about the time needed to make a MMO. They play LOTRO, wich took about 5 years of development.
    The DF build we know today begun in 2003, so thats 4 year of development. And to be honest.....the features in DF is about 10 times more advanced then LOTRO....so why how could the DF devs do it in les then 5 years..??
    If they would.....they would to be some *¤#"¤#"# programing masters?
    How are the features more advanced? 



    I'm simply asking you to clarify, not accusing nor flaming you sir.

     

    The features are 'different' but I don't see them being more 'advanced. '

     


    well, DFO is going for a skill based system with no levels and no classes.  this is more "advanced" because of the exponentially greater # of combinations which can result, not to mention the massive # of skills they're supposedly planning for.  also, player built and destroyable assets make it more "advanced" as well, since there's a significant amount of design consideration and potential issues with that.  Just city management alone adds layers of additional complexity.

    You can't really compare DFO to your typical run around do quests and kill mobs sort of MMORPG.  I believe it is advanced when compared to those.

    Disclaimer - I haven't played LoTRo so I'm just going off what I've read about it, that its just another run of the mill PvE MMORPG.

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member

    Originally posted by coder1024

    Originally posted by SLI2000


    Team Fortress 2 was not in continued development for 9 straight years. I am pretty sure it was placed on the back burner for many years then finally picked up again and completed.



    The makers of TF2 describe it themselves as being 9 years in the making, so they're probably right.  I know they redid stuff and redid stuff again over the years and changed the art direction, etc.  I'm just pointing out that a long development cycle doesn't imply vapor.

    Yeah but isn't TF2 made by Valve?

    They have the track record to keep a game in indefinite development and people will still have faith in the title's eventual release.

    Long development cycle may or may not imply vaporware, but long dev cycle + unknown indy developer tends to make people wonder...

  • coder1024coder1024 Eastern PA, PAPosts: 56Member
    Originally posted by heerobya


     
    Originally posted by coder1024

    Originally posted by SLI2000


    Team Fortress 2 was not in continued development for 9 straight years. I am pretty sure it was placed on the back burner for many years then finally picked up again and completed.



    The makers of TF2 describe it themselves as being 9 years in the making, so they're probably right.  I know they redid stuff and redid stuff again over the years and changed the art direction, etc.  I'm just pointing out that a long development cycle doesn't imply vapor.

     

    Yeah but isn't TF2 made by Valve?

    They have the track record to keep a game in indefinite development and people will still have faith in the title's eventual release.

    Long development cycle may or may not imply vaporware, but long dev cycle + unknown indy developer tends to make people wonder...



    sure, there's no question that people wonder about DFO and have the suspicion that its vapor.  Just bring up DFO and you'll get people shouting vapor.  I'm just saying its not necessarily vapor due to its development time.  It could be of course.  I guess we'll know when its either cancelled or release :-)

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member

    Originally posted by coder1024


     
    Originally posted by heerobya


     
    Originally posted by daarco


    I spoke with some non DF fans yeatsrday about the time needed to make a MMO. They play LOTRO, wich took about 5 years of development.
    The DF build we know today begun in 2003, so thats 4 year of development. And to be honest.....the features in DF is about 10 times more advanced then LOTRO....so why how could the DF devs do it in les then 5 years..??
    If they would.....they would to be some *¤#"¤#"# programing masters?
    How are the features more advanced? 



    I'm simply asking you to clarify, not accusing nor flaming you sir.

     

    The features are 'different' but I don't see them being more 'advanced. '

     


    well, DFO is going for a skill based system with no levels and no classes.  this is more "advanced" because of the exponentially greater # of combinations which can result, not to mention the massive # of skills they're supposedly planning for.  also, player built and destroyable assets make it more "advanced" as well, since there's a significant amount of design consideration and potential issues with that.  Just city management alone adds layers of additional complexity.

     

    You can't really compare DFO to your typical run around do quests and kill mobs sort of MMORPG.  I believe it is advanced when compared to those.

    Disclaimer - I haven't played LoTRo so I'm just going off what I've read about it, that its just another run of the mill PvE MMORPG.

    I still don't know if I'd consider that more 'advanced' but rather just presenting different challenges.

    I could argue that classes and levels are more advanced because you have to balance them still, create level appropriate conent, define group roles, create specific content, abilities, trainers, and of course the whole world needs to be designed around the level ranges, etc.

    I can't argue against player built structures and destroyable assets as being more advanced then instanced housing, throw in city management etc. and it is indeed more complex and involved then instanced housing.

    However, DFO (from what I read on their website) is still offering questing and PvE content, however not being the primary focus, I'd argue LOTRO is much more advanced in terms of PvE content with instanced dungeons and raids + the cinematics and questing lore....

    Throw in monster play and deeds / traits etc. and...

    I'm not saying LOTRO is more complex or more advanced, I'm just saying that DFO isn't more advanced. DFO may be more complex in some ways, but much weaker then LOTRO in other aspects.

    So I'd still say, over all, that DFO isn't any more advanced, just different.

  • coder1024coder1024 Eastern PA, PAPosts: 56Member

    yes, DFO will have PvE and, in fact, is boasting very advanced AI.  we'll see.  I'm not talking preference here or saying which is better.  I was thinking more along the lines of design/development effort.  Going with classes is simpler.  Think of a skill based system where anyone can potentially have any skill.  Now, create a set of class where each class only has a subset of those.  It greatly simplifies things.  Everyone being able to have everything (with limits, i.e. softcap) creates that many more possible interactions.

    so as far as killing mobs and questing, etc. DFO will have all that.  but I think it goes beyond in terms of the destructable player assets, city building, etc.

    ultimately a game which has the sole focus on PvE is inherently simpler, imo, since the dynamic between players and bots is simpler than the interaction between players and players.  it becomes tough.  many times they just end up having a separate set of rules in an attempt to avoid the problem, but that doesn't always work out well (Vanguard).

    to each his own, but I just don' t see the typical PvE MMO as coming anywhere close to something like DFO in terms of design/coding complexity.

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member

    Originally posted by coder1024


    yes, DFO will have PvE and, in fact, is boasting very advanced AI.  we'll see.  I'm not talking preference here or saying which is better.  I was thinking more along the lines of design/development effort.  Going with classes is simpler.  Think of a skill based system where anyone can potentially have any skill.  Now, create a set of class where each class only has a subset of those.  It greatly simplifies things.  Everyone being able to have everything (with limits, i.e. softcap) creates that many more possible interactions.
    so as far as killing mobs and questing, etc. DFO will have all that.  but I think it goes beyond in terms of the destructable player assets, city building, etc.
    ultimately a game which has the sole focus on PvE is inherently simpler, imo, since the dynamic between players and bots is simpler than the interaction between players and players.  it becomes tough.  many times they just end up having a separate set of rules in an attempt to avoid the problem, but that doesn't always work out well (Vanguard).
    to each his own, but I just don' t see the typical PvE MMO as coming anywhere close to something like DFO in terms of design/coding complexity.

    Actually, I imagine bot/Human interaction is more complex.

    The dynamic nature of PvP isn't something that has to be coded, per say. Every NPC/mob vs. Player interaction has to be coded and tested and balanced etc.

    For example, another player sees that I try to run left to avoid him/her. That other player simply has to move their character in the appropriate direction to follow me. The coding that is required is "when the player hits the 'D' key they strafe right."

    But for a mob/NPC, their are a multitude of checks and AI calculations that have to take place for the NPC to realize that I am moving left, and to follow accordingly. The coding demands are massive because every possible outcome has to be coded and tested and balanced etc.

    Everything another players mind/fingers can do to react to the situation doesn't have to be coded, they simply have to create the control scheme to allow the human player to interact with the world, where as the actions of the NPC/mob need to be specifically coded.  

    Anywho... sorry I got kind of random there...

    I understand that you are saying that DFO is more advanced because of the open nature of many of the game systems, where as other games offer more closed systems. Not being a programmer my self, I can't comment with any accuracy as to if my above assertations are correct or simply my overactive mind trying to seek justifications....

    but in regards to the original question offered by the OP, "will DF still be in development 5 years from now?"

    in relation to our arguement, if it's just as complex as LOTRO, which had a massive team of devs and the funding / support from a massive publisher we can expect it to take a signficantly longer amount of time to be released due to the small indy nature and financial situation of Adventurine.

    If it is indeed more complex and advanced, another 5 years doesn't seem to unrealistic, however the only question is will the project survive until then?

    I think DFO would be better served to released the "core" of the game as soon as possible, and use the new revenue to continue funding so that they can one day deliver all that they plan to have.

  • baphametbaphamet omaha, NEPosts: 2,838Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by outlaw101
    Well the game has been in development for nearly 4 years now, even though the game has alot of features i doubt it warrents 9 years development, I would vote in your poll but i won't degrade myself to saying 'evar' So i created a non-biased poll

    just because you didnt like my choice of words (which was meant as a harmless joke)does not mean it is biased.

    but whatever

  • coder1024coder1024 Eastern PA, PAPosts: 56Member

    wrt the original question in the thread, I doubt it'll take 5 more years.  No idea how long it will take, but I don't think they have that much more ahead of them.  DFO is an amitious project, esp given that its being made by a small company and its going past what so many other MMORPGs provide, but I think the big holdup at this point is getting a publishing deal.

    As far as AI being harder than player interaction, well DFO has AI and is supposed to be very advanced AI.  I was referring to the open nature of player-interaction-based gameplay.  When you make a game which is all about player conflict and guild wars, there's this open-endedness that is far more difficult to deal with than setting up PvE zones.

  • SpeedMannSpeedMann Calgary, ABPosts: 333Member

    MMOG's are always in development after there released and im sure it will be the same with Darkfall. So ya, It will be 5 years from now.

    ==================================================
    Happy! Happy! Joy! Joy!

  • coder1024coder1024 Eastern PA, PAPosts: 56Member

    no, there's usually a distinction between the pre-release development phase and the post-release live support phase.  I think the intent of the OP was whether they'd still be in the pre-release development phase.  of course, they'll be continuing to do development until the game is shut down at the end of its life.

  • ghoul31ghoul31 toledo, OHPosts: 1,955Member

    Originally posted by daarco


    I spoke with some non DF fans yeatsrday about the time needed to make a MMO. They play LOTRO, wich took about 5 years of development.
    The DF build we know today begun in 2003, so thats 4 year of development. And to be honest.....the features in DF is about 10 times more advanced then LOTRO....so why how could the DF devs do it in les then 5 years..??
    If they would.....they would to be some *¤#"¤#"# programing masters?
    again with the lies. It began in 2000.

     I bet in 2012 , people will say, It didn't REALLY begin developement until 2007.

     

  • Zaraki199Zaraki199 dallas, VTPosts: 101Member

    ghoul are you just calling everyone liers they scrapped what they had in 2002-2003 with the merge are you going to ignore that fact? just so you can make your self look right when you acctully not right but wrong like always or do i have 2 bust out the screenshots from 2001-2002 ? and then show you 2003 screenies

  • ghoul31ghoul31 toledo, OHPosts: 1,955Member

    Originally posted by Zaraki199


    ghoul are you just calling everyone liers they scrapped what they had in 2002-2003 with the merge are you going to ignore that fact? just so you can make your self look right when you acctully not right but wrong like always or do i have 2 bust out the screenshots from 2001-2002 ? and then show you 2003 screenies
    they didn't scrap everything in 2003. Just because they improved the graphics a little, doesn't mean they scrapped the whole game.

     

  • Zaraki199Zaraki199 dallas, VTPosts: 101Member

    they did tho lol the gra[hics are totally diffrent the bassiccly redid everything and just kept the same concepts

  • SLI2000SLI2000 Boise, IDPosts: 104Member

    The graphics quality of the game didn't change since 2003..  Well no actually they did change. They got alot worse looking.

     It looked better in 2003-2004 than it does now.

    Don't believe me?

    http://wonderbrick.com/darkfall/2001-2006.zip

    Download that zip and look in the screenshots 2003 folder.

    The 2006+ screenshots look terrible compared to those back in 2003. A lot of those in the 2003 folder actually still look pretty decent.

    My guess is that they scaled down the overall graphics quality of the game at one point and it made it look worse.

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