I'd also like to point out one thing I've noticed in this forum. The people who enjoy the game are making well thought out posts as to exactly what they like about it, and why. Whereas the people who clearly dislike the game are posting one-liners, vague references, innuendo, hearsay, allusions and appear, at least from an observer's perspective, to have no objective reasoning for their opinion. Those of you who don't like Vanguard, tell us why. Carry on a discussion, it's what forums are for. Nobody is impressed by your potshots. See? I can do it too. Watch. I wonder if there is any correlation between peoples' inability to articulate a coherent thought regarding why they dislike Vanguard, and their dislike of Vanguard itself. Could it be because said people... dare I say it... lack the mental faculties to truly enjoy a game with more to it than World of Warcraft? Occam's Razor after all. I respect your right to have an opinion, but many people it seems are abusing that right. If you have a certain perspective, and you offer that perspective to the public. Be prepared to defend it, or else keep it to yourself.
Strafye, this is MMORPG.com...land of the very opinionated player. Lots of these players are very "jaded" so you have to kind of roll with them and see it from their perspective. They're burned out on game companies broken promises and broken games. I've come to the point where it best to just let them say what they want to say and I'll say my peace and move on. I am not a huge fan of SOE myself and won't bite my tongue and be a "yes girl" to everything they throw at us in Vanguard. In fact I am kinda rabid myself when it comes to them messing with Vanguard. However, SOE is actually doing pretty good with the over all game so far - yes even the new ranger changes are a good thing once they iron out the changes. I know there are going to be detractors within the game and those outside of it. I still say this is one of the best "potential" MMORPG's on the market today and if SOE plays their cards right and continues to make the game better with each patch(and they are defiantely doing this) then Vanguard will be a great game in the very near future.
Yeah, I understand what you're saying. The game does have its faults, and the future of the game is contingent upon whether or not SOE actively fixes them. If they just LEAVE the bugs in the game, then things won't improve much overall. Just because something can be improved, doesn't mean it will be. I'm basing most of my opinions of this on the fact that the devs are actively participating in discussions with the players on the official forums. This is a positive sign that hopefully means that things which need to be addressed will be.
I still don't have any respect for people who badmouth things and refuse to explain why.
Yeah, I understand what you're saying. The game does have its faults, and the future of the game is contingent upon whether or not SOE actively fixes them. If they just LEAVE the bugs in the game, then things won't improve much overall. Just because something can be improved, doesn't mean it will be. I'm basing most of my opinions of this on the fact that the devs are actively participating in discussions with the players on the official forums. This is a positive sign that hopefully means that things which need to be addressed will be. I still don't have any respect for people who badmouth things and refuse to explain why.
Yes...they, the developers, are communicating with us on almost a daily basis now and this...this is a good thing! I have never seen this much chatter from the SOE developers and their playrers as they are showing lately with Vanguard. I can honestly say that they must really care for the game and what we think because they are posting and they are explaining the why's and wherefores of their changes, fixes, and tweaks.
Now if they'll keep this up I'll stop being such a pain in their arse and start actually praising them to a point....nah...thats going a bit far for me...so I'll just do the next best thing and keep promoting their games and playing them.
It's rather tough in this particular situation for a person to give any opinion on a particular game when others have an opposing view. This community isn't known for its understanding nature.
You couldn't say any review for that matter would be completely unbiased when, at the end of the review, they give a score dictating whether the game is enjoyable or not. To all those who dislike the game for their own reasons, they are not reasons in which make the game bad. The main focus is pointed towards what makes this game playable, and Vanguard in all of its entirety, is just that.
I recently came back to Vanguard after long hiatus to notice that, even though not much has changed in terms of game play, stability has increased exponentially. With that being said I've enjoyed my time playing, much more then some of the other games that have recently come out.
Although there are many out there who may find Diplomacy and Crafting boring, the systems are undoubtedly original and rewarding in most respects. A game that gives you more options then "Killing, Looting, and Repeating" is definitely a game worth looking into.
This game has started to fill a void that has been since Star Wars Galaxies introduced the New Game Enhancements. It may not have as great of an economy, or a community of amazing, pleasant to be around veterans, but it is a game that for now, I can call home. I was indeed surprised by my return to SOE to give Vanguard another try. The Vanguard team so far has spoken about enhancements that they will make to the game. I am a little weary, but they assure us all that they will listen to the community before making any decisions. Perhaps it is my naivety, but I believe them. All I can really do at this point is play the game for what it is. I hope everyone who has read the Original Posters Review will consider taking a look at this game, which really does deserve a second chance.
Aside from finding your 86 out of 100 "score" hilarious, you seem to forget the game you are attempting to "review" has been out a year now. The bashing this game received was well deserved at launch.
From all signs it appears after subscribers paying $oe for a year to play an alpha/beta product it is finally approaching a release state. As far as the community, expect it to take a turn for the worse if the game is ever able to fill more than 4 servers. There is a reason the games with the most players have the worse communities.
Honestly, I played this game during its open beta period, and had high hopes for it. Like most everyone else I was highly dissapointed at the state the game was it.. so i never bothered picking it up.
I had heard that they did some tweaks to fix some performance issues and last week my wife and I picked the game up. Its got its issues, but you know, its not a bad game. If you are picking it up for the first time, this is what I would have expected the game to be at release.. so for me.. thats what it is. Likelly the same for other players that are just now really giving the game a try. I can understand that those folks that did play at release are rightfully upset at how things went down, but for a new player to VG.. its not bad to me.
The game has its faults. I will itemize them here, just so I don't get called a fanboy.
I would say that is to late, as it is that you actually had positive attitude against the game your label Vanboy.
On the other hand would you have written this 3-4 months ago you would have seen 20+ pages of pure evil hatred on you.
He still deserves it, but noone needs to do so anymore, the truth has gotten out, and playing it makes it as plane as the nose on ones face... until they hide it behind a noobie isle
As PLAIN as the nose on one's face.
And why does someone deserve a flame because they like something you don't? Get over it...
Great review though, just because you like it doesn't make you biased. You came into it with an open mind and that is all that matters. Glad you are having fun!
Yes the world is lifeless and the quests are meaningless. Sure you may have started in a raid on a village but for how long did that mean anything. That story is droppped and forgotten by the time you reach the next level practically. When do you ever get to deal with the ramifications of working for or turning against the evil emperor of Tanvu? Compare that to Lord of the Rings online where your story follows you through the game, where instanced events put you in a world where things are happening. A town gets attacked by bandits and set on fire your actions resolve the event. In Vanguard that raid continues to happen in the background, what you do means nothing. Pirates of the burning sea is coming out and it will have meaningful events like take control of a port for your nation. Vanguard is old school lackluster gameplay.
Diplomacy gives out buffs, yes it does, however the buffs are pretty weak and you could get something better from a spell caster close to your level in most cases. I will give them credit for expanding the radius of the diplomacy buffs. Initially it was limited to just the towns but now it's spread to the outpost as well.
The big problem with the game though is that the vast majority of it's content is grinding. Diplomacy has very little content past the opening racial lines (which were all good). You grind civic diplomacy for hundreds of hours to get your skill up and your presence up so you can do the smattering of quests in the game. It's weak.
Crafting is just the same. Sure they added complications to try and spice things up but the whole idea of building a picture frame or a set of bowls is just not compelling. You do batch orders like that hundreds and thousands of times to get your skill up and eventually maybe get to make a useful item, if you can get the recipe.
Many of the biggest adventuring quests arent any better. It's grind out kills to get faction before you can even start the quest. Or kill hundreds of creatures to get a drop that you need 10 of to get one piece of a recipe that will eventually give you a decent item.
For people who have unlimited time and like to do repetitive monotonous things they may enjoy this game. I know a few people who like to watch tv and barely pay attention to Vanguard while they craft or do diplomacy, it's easy to do there's little thought to either process. I understand your fresh to the game, and yeah I enjoyed it too up until the mid teens. From there it kept getting worse and worse, more monotonous and more repetitive.
Yes the world is lifeless and the quests are meaningless. Sure you may have started in a raid on a village but for how long did that mean anything. That story is droppped and forgotten by the time you reach the next level practically. When do you ever get to deal with the ramifications of working for or turning against the evil emperor of Tanvu? Compare that to Lord of the Rings online where your story follows you through the game, where instanced events put you in a world where things are happening. A town gets attacked by bandits and set on fire your actions resolve the event. In Vanguard that raid continues to happen in the background, what you do means nothing. Pirates of the burning sea is coming out and it will have meaningful events like take control of a port for your nation. Vanguard is old school lackluster gameplay. Diplomacy gives out buffs, yes it does, however the buffs are pretty weak and you could get something better from a spell caster close to your level in most cases. I will give them credit for expanding the radius of the diplomacy buffs. Initially it was limited to just the towns but now it's spread to the outpost as well. The big problem with the game though is that the vast majority of it's content is grinding. Diplomacy has very little content past the opening racial lines (which were all good). You grind civic diplomacy for hundreds of hours to get your skill up and your presence up so you can do the smattering of quests in the game. It's weak. Crafting is just the same. Sure they added complications to try and spice things up but the whole idea of building a picture frame or a set of bowls is just not compelling. You do batch orders like that hundreds and thousands of times to get your skill up and eventually maybe get to make a useful item, if you can get the recipe. Many of the biggest adventuring quests arent any better. It's grind out kills to get faction before you can even start the quest. Or kill hundreds of creatures to get a drop that you need 10 of to get one piece of a recipe that will eventually give you a decent item. For people who have unlimited time and like to do repetitive monotonous things they may enjoy this game. I know a few people who like to watch tv and barely pay attention to Vanguard while they craft or do diplomacy, it's easy to do there's little thought to either process. I understand your fresh to the game, and yeah I enjoyed it too up until the mid teens. From there it kept getting worse and worse, more monotonous and more repetitive.
Sounds like just about every other MMORPG out there...yep...sure does. There is a huge, huge difference though. Vanguard is huge! Three huge continents to explore. A european flaovered one, oriental flaovered one and a middle-eastern flaovered one. Vanguard has many, many classes that are not all cookie cutter. Vanguard has free roaming mounts(both on the ground and in the air) and ships! Vanguard is pretty much the fantasy version of SWG as someone else mentioned. Vanguard will mature in time and it is starting to shine.
The difference is other games are innovating with new and better gameplay. Vanguard is less innovative than wow. A few Ui additions is about it. Diplomacy as implemented is not an innovation. Seriously all the huge world does is give you the ability to fight in the different regions at every level. Wow has as much variation in it's zone, you just cant access them until you hit the right level.
The classes in Vanguard while nice in terms of gameplay but they are all generic and nonsensical. You can have a group with an Orc Dread Knight, a Dark Elf Necromancer, a High Elf Paladin, a Dwarven Cleric, a Vulmane Ranger, and a Qalian Bard. What kind of realistic world would have this bunch of individuals working together? How can you feel any sense of immersion in this blatantly unrealistic world.
Nice review, and a nice discussion that follows it. Makes we want to pick it up and try it out. Do they have a free trial by any chance?
Anyhoo, even though the review and the following discussion caught my attention, I still have this feeling that this game will steal all my time, and that I would have used my time better if I played another singleplayer RPG. It is important for me that the MMO element is there; I would like to hear your opinion on grouping and raiding and inter-player economy and all that has to do with the "MMO" element of the genre. Since things generally takes longer to accomplish, and usually takes much more monotonous tasks, it is important that I am rewarded with something in return - with a focus on the MMO aspect.
Anyway, thanks for a thourough review. Still remians to see if I will try it out though.
Aside from finding your 86 out of 100 "score" hilarious, you seem to forget the game you are attempting to "review" has been out a year now. The bashing this game received was well deserved at launch. From all signs it appears after subscribers paying $oe for a year to play an alpha/beta product it is finally approaching a release state. As far as the community, expect it to take a turn for the worse if the game is ever able to fill more than 4 servers. There is a reason the games with the most players have the worse communities.
I believe this game was released in january or february of this year...unless we are all time travelers a year has definitely NOT passed.
Maybe over exagerating makes your point feel more valid, but it definitely doesn't make me believe it anymore.
Aside from finding your 86 out of 100 "score" hilarious, you seem to forget the game you are attempting to "review" has been out a year now. The bashing this game received was well deserved at launch. From all signs it appears after subscribers paying $oe for a year to play an alpha/beta product it is finally approaching a release state. As far as the community, expect it to take a turn for the worse if the game is ever able to fill more than 4 servers. There is a reason the games with the most players have the worse communities.
I believe this game was released in january or february of this year...unless we are all time travelers a year has definitely NOT passed.
Maybe over exagerating makes your point feel more valid, but it definitely doesn't make me believe it anymore.
Aside from finding your 86 out of 100 "score" hilarious, you seem to forget the game you are attempting to "review" has been out a year now. The bashing this game received was well deserved at launch. From all signs it appears after subscribers paying $oe for a year to play an alpha/beta product it is finally approaching a release state. As far as the community, expect it to take a turn for the worse if the game is ever able to fill more than 4 servers. There is a reason the games with the most players have the worse communities.
I believe this game was released in january or february of this year...unless we are all time travelers a year has definitely NOT passed.
Maybe over exagerating makes your point feel more valid, but it definitely doesn't make me believe it anymore.
VG is crap...nuff said
*EDIT* IN MY OPINION VG is crap...nuff said
You do not make the final decision on what is good or what is bad. Get your elitist attitude in check, and get off your high horse.
The difference is other games are innovating with new and better gameplay. Vanguard is less innovative than wow. A few Ui additions is about it. Diplomacy as implemented is not an innovation. Seriously all the huge world does is give you the ability to fight in the different regions at every level. Wow has as much variation in it's zone, you just cant access them until you hit the right level.
That is by far the most idiotic thing I've heard in this thread yet. Vanguard actually has quests that I've never done before in ANY MMO and I've played WoW. It has so much more to do, crafting actually IS tough, and overall it has a level of immersion that any WoW player would get into if they would just wise up and try it. The combat is pretty much the same with a few minor additions. There are bugs and small problems but overall it's a good game.
As I said before I just returned to the game after totally ditching it (for other games, and yes WoW) after its launch, and I came full circle. If you aren't trying this game because "blah blah I heard its sucks, noone plays that game, WoW is better" then you really shouldn't be looking in these forums anyway. (the vanguard soh forums)
This game has SO much more to offer then WoW, it really does, you just have to work a little harder to get there. You don't have to sit around and BE a certain level to go adventuring, you can pretty much go anywhere you can make it to.
I'm not saying that Vanguard is the best game out there right now, because thats a matter of opinion, and I'm not saying, even, that I'm going to play this game for years on end, because I probably won't (mainly due to the new games being released) but what I am saying, is right now, this is the most diverse game I've seen that is out right now. (Old SWG not included). and thats really saying something.
Aside from finding your 86 out of 100 "score" hilarious, you seem to forget the game you are attempting to "review" has been out a year now. The bashing this game received was well deserved at launch. From all signs it appears after subscribers paying $oe for a year to play an alpha/beta product it is finally approaching a release state. As far as the community, expect it to take a turn for the worse if the game is ever able to fill more than 4 servers. There is a reason the games with the most players have the worse communities.
I believe this game was released in january or february of this year...unless we are all time travelers a year has definitely NOT passed.
Maybe over exagerating makes your point feel more valid, but it definitely doesn't make me believe it anymore.
VG is crap...nuff said
Please enlighted us all ....what is not crap? I can't believe I have been wasting my time playing a game that was crap. All along I was enjoying myself and didn't realize that it was an illusion. While your at it, please tell me everything else I like and dislike so I never make this mistake again.
9/10 6/10 (granted, this is lousy in nearly all MMOs)
Performance
4/10 6/10 Story/Lore/Immersion
10/10 5/10 (unless you explore diplomacy, there is little immersion, and you shouldn't be forced into a sphere that isn't enjoyable to find it.)
Combat/Advancement
8/10 I agree Crafting
10/10 8/10 (the crafting system is nice. However, forced WOs for progression is a tedious grind and reduces motivation to get items on the market.) Community
10/10 8/10 (A more mature community, but quite a few elitists with a sense of entitlement. A staunch WoW hater is just as unwelcoming as their counterpart.) Extras
10/10 5/10 (Diplomacy is an avenue to explore plot. It has benefits to an end, but is generally seen as unenjoyable.) FINAL SCORE - 86/100 71/100 71-80 = Good game; very fun to play; solid finished product that's worth the money and time; has one or two things holding it back. 81-90 = Great game; very fun to play; one or more aspects are flawless or revolutionary; expect to spend a lot of time playing; only flaws are minor or easily fixed. I can certainly see how you came to the 86/100 after a week in Telon. However, I can assure you that MOST players bail on crafting and the extras less than a month into their travels. But hey, 71/100 after over 10 months played isn't bad. It's still a solid game that offers something for everyone. The fact that it doesn't offer everything to everyone only makes it more desireable for someone like myself.
I closed and open beta tested this game it sounds like they haven't fixed a lot of problems from the closed and open beta stages of the game a lot of the major issues that were mentioned in the OP's review are from the closed and open beta stages of this game. IMO this game had an incredable amount of potential to be a great game the framework is there but the effort was half assed IMHO. Those bugs with graphics and getting stuck as well as player movement are all issues that i would expect to see in the beta stages of the game maybe not to the degree taht they are present in this game but for a beta test it was acceptable. To see that they have not fixed these things after this long leads me to believe that they aren't going to or that the programming in the first place was so poor that it is taking a lot longer than expected and they are having to retool the whole thing. I wish that they would have NOT released this game and fixed the bugs that we reported in the closed and open beta stages of the game. It saddens me to see a game with a lot of potential to be great be so poorly managed.
Don't get me wrong here this is not a bash on the game but rather it is disapointment that these issues still persist after this long. IMO they should not have released it until these issues were at least under some control.
As with any review, it is inherently based on an opinion, and opinions always vary. But the review didn't gloss over things like the graphical flicker (I can't stand that). Overall Vanguard does have great potential, but the bugs just get overwhelming still. The names thing is also annoying - it has nothing to do with server numbers or age, and everything to do with using the EQ system of unique first name only, rather than the EVE system of unique first and last name. Having a space as a valid character opens up so many more names, it's just poor design (in my view lazy) to stick with the old "one string no spaces" system.
That is by far the most idiotic thing I've heard in this thread yet. Vanguard actually has quests that I've never done before in ANY MMO and I've played WoW.
Such as? I've heard complaints in this thread that those who dont like Vanguard are being vague but I answered pretty specifically what I didnt like about the game and all I get back is this. What quests are so great in VG and what is it that makes them good? In my experience this is simply not true. The quests are weak and seem like they were for the most part chucked in just to give people something to do. Many other games have much more polish to them, the quests sound more interesting the story's are better and the actual act of completeing them is more interesting with less grind.
This isnt just my opinion check out this thread in the official forums.
That is by far the most idiotic thing I've heard in this thread yet. Vanguard actually has quests that I've never done before in ANY MMO and I've played WoW.
Such as? I've heard complaints in this thread that those who dont like Vanguard are being vague but I answered pretty specifically what I didnt like about the game and all I get back is this. What quests are so great in VG and what is it that makes them good? In my experience this is simply not true. The quests are weak and seem like they were for the most part chucked in just to give people something to do. Many other games have much more polish to them, the quests sound more interesting the story's are better and the actual act of completeing them is more interesting with less grind.
This isnt just my opinion check out this thread in the official forums.
Ok could one guess that all the small local storys in the quests was a mistake as it is *known* that it should all work for a greater story concerning the grand scheme? I don't know but I do find these independent small storys to be great.
There is alot of grinding quests, ok, but there is no problem with that. Why should there be a problem qith having many grinding quests, should it be better to leave out the grinding quest as people can't see the forest because of all the trees.
There are also alot of short stories told about the place where you are currently at which has no bearing on the greater grand scheme of things. And when you move to next place you maybe won't be continued on these but you will pick up other storys. In these small quests and storys you will also find these kill 9000 wolves to gets 2 pelts, ok.
It could be that you are to investigate, by diplomacy, how some guys old friends are doing. Can be that you are to find out where a lost son has come. The quests where the local crafter needs humongus amounts of pelts I tend not to see them and not let them take overhand on the so called real quest, not just because they are there anyway (if you gonna grind awhile why not let it be done with a slight purpose).
Ok could one guess that all the small local storys in the quests was a mistake as it is *known* that it should all work for a greater story concerning the grand scheme? I don't know but I do find these independent small storys to be great.
Personally I found that even the way they did the small local stories was weak lacking anything compellling about them. Plus doing them isnt refelcted in the greater world. Lotro for instance will have npc's react to you once you've completed a quest that helps them. They shout out as you walk by "Thanks for killing that pack of wolves for us, it's made our lives a lot easier." Or something similar. In many ways it's little details but they make the world feel real, and Vanguard is missing that.
Personally I found that even the way they did the small local stories was weak lacking anything compellling about them. Plus doing them isnt refelcted in the greater world. Lotro for instance will have npc's react to you once you've completed a quest that helps them. They shout out as you walk by "Thanks for killing that pack of wolves for us, it's made our lives a lot easier." Or something similar. In many ways it's little details but they make the world feel real, and Vanguard is missing that.
What is compelling then, a general grand story? The story writing in Vanguard is not any worse in any other game in general, why should it be.
It is nice that they do that in LOTRO but that doesn't mean that Vanguard have to do it, should be adding it for the game ok that would be nice. But a must because they've do it in LOTRO, nah.
What is compelling then, a general grand story? The story writing in Vanguard is not any worse in any other game in general, why should it be. It is nice that they do that in LOTRO but that doesn't mean that Vanguard have to do it, should be adding it for the game ok that would be nice. But a must because they've do it in LOTRO, nah.
I'm not saying they have to do it, it's just one feature that sets Lotro above Vanguard. The story, how npc's react to you, the instanced events bring that game to life and make it far superior to Vanguard in that aspect. So what does Vanguard have that sets it apart? A large lifeless world that's about it. The ability to grind forever on all the assorted little things like crafting workorders, civic diplomacy, faction, repetitive grind quests like the Arena or for schematics by the isle of madness. It's weak in the gameplay department, unless you like monotonous grinding.
Comments
Strafye, this is MMORPG.com...land of the very opinionated player. Lots of these players are very "jaded" so you have to kind of roll with them and see it from their perspective. They're burned out on game companies broken promises and broken games. I've come to the point where it best to just let them say what they want to say and I'll say my peace and move on. I am not a huge fan of SOE myself and won't bite my tongue and be a "yes girl" to everything they throw at us in Vanguard. In fact I am kinda rabid myself when it comes to them messing with Vanguard. However, SOE is actually doing pretty good with the over all game so far - yes even the new ranger changes are a good thing once they iron out the changes. I know there are going to be detractors within the game and those outside of it. I still say this is one of the best "potential" MMORPG's on the market today and if SOE plays their cards right and continues to make the game better with each patch(and they are defiantely doing this) then Vanguard will be a great game in the very near future.
Yeah, I understand what you're saying. The game does have its faults, and the future of the game is contingent upon whether or not SOE actively fixes them. If they just LEAVE the bugs in the game, then things won't improve much overall. Just because something can be improved, doesn't mean it will be. I'm basing most of my opinions of this on the fact that the devs are actively participating in discussions with the players on the official forums. This is a positive sign that hopefully means that things which need to be addressed will be.
I still don't have any respect for people who badmouth things and refuse to explain why.
My blog:
http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/Strayfe/
Yes...they, the developers, are communicating with us on almost a daily basis now and this...this is a good thing! I have never seen this much chatter from the SOE developers and their playrers as they are showing lately with Vanguard. I can honestly say that they must really care for the game and what we think because they are posting and they are explaining the why's and wherefores of their changes, fixes, and tweaks.
Now if they'll keep this up I'll stop being such a pain in their arse and start actually praising them to a point....nah...thats going a bit far for me...so I'll just do the next best thing and keep promoting their games and playing them.
Completely...
It's rather tough in this particular situation for a person to give any opinion on a particular game when others have an opposing view. This community isn't known for its understanding nature.
You couldn't say any review for that matter would be completely unbiased when, at the end of the review, they give a score dictating whether the game is enjoyable or not. To all those who dislike the game for their own reasons, they are not reasons in which make the game bad. The main focus is pointed towards what makes this game playable, and Vanguard in all of its entirety, is just that.
I recently came back to Vanguard after long hiatus to notice that, even though not much has changed in terms of game play, stability has increased exponentially. With that being said I've enjoyed my time playing, much more then some of the other games that have recently come out.
Although there are many out there who may find Diplomacy and Crafting boring, the systems are undoubtedly original and rewarding in most respects. A game that gives you more options then "Killing, Looting, and Repeating" is definitely a game worth looking into.
This game has started to fill a void that has been since Star Wars Galaxies introduced the New Game Enhancements. It may not have as great of an economy, or a community of amazing, pleasant to be around veterans, but it is a game that for now, I can call home. I was indeed surprised by my return to SOE to give Vanguard another try. The Vanguard team so far has spoken about enhancements that they will make to the game. I am a little weary, but they assure us all that they will listen to the community before making any decisions. Perhaps it is my naivety, but I believe them. All I can really do at this point is play the game for what it is. I hope everyone who has read the Original Posters Review will consider taking a look at this game, which really does deserve a second chance.
Aside from finding your 86 out of 100 "score" hilarious, you seem to forget the game you are attempting to "review" has been out a year now. The bashing this game received was well deserved at launch.
From all signs it appears after subscribers paying $oe for a year to play an alpha/beta product it is finally approaching a release state. As far as the community, expect it to take a turn for the worse if the game is ever able to fill more than 4 servers. There is a reason the games with the most players have the worse communities.
Honestly, I played this game during its open beta period, and had high hopes for it. Like most everyone else I was highly dissapointed at the state the game was it.. so i never bothered picking it up.
I had heard that they did some tweaks to fix some performance issues and last week my wife and I picked the game up. Its got its issues, but you know, its not a bad game. If you are picking it up for the first time, this is what I would have expected the game to be at release.. so for me.. thats what it is. Likelly the same for other players that are just now really giving the game a try. I can understand that those folks that did play at release are rightfully upset at how things went down, but for a new player to VG.. its not bad to me.
I would say that is to late, as it is that you actually had positive attitude against the game your label Vanboy.
On the other hand would you have written this 3-4 months ago you would have seen 20+ pages of pure evil hatred on you.
He still deserves it, but noone needs to do so anymore, the truth has gotten out, and playing it makes it as plane as the nose on ones face... until they hide it behind a noobie isle
As PLAIN as the nose on one's face.And why does someone deserve a flame because they like something you don't? Get over it...
Great review though, just because you like it doesn't make you biased. You came into it with an open mind and that is all that matters. Glad you are having fun!
Yes the world is lifeless and the quests are meaningless. Sure you may have started in a raid on a village but for how long did that mean anything. That story is droppped and forgotten by the time you reach the next level practically. When do you ever get to deal with the ramifications of working for or turning against the evil emperor of Tanvu? Compare that to Lord of the Rings online where your story follows you through the game, where instanced events put you in a world where things are happening. A town gets attacked by bandits and set on fire your actions resolve the event. In Vanguard that raid continues to happen in the background, what you do means nothing. Pirates of the burning sea is coming out and it will have meaningful events like take control of a port for your nation. Vanguard is old school lackluster gameplay.
Diplomacy gives out buffs, yes it does, however the buffs are pretty weak and you could get something better from a spell caster close to your level in most cases. I will give them credit for expanding the radius of the diplomacy buffs. Initially it was limited to just the towns but now it's spread to the outpost as well.
The big problem with the game though is that the vast majority of it's content is grinding. Diplomacy has very little content past the opening racial lines (which were all good). You grind civic diplomacy for hundreds of hours to get your skill up and your presence up so you can do the smattering of quests in the game. It's weak.
Crafting is just the same. Sure they added complications to try and spice things up but the whole idea of building a picture frame or a set of bowls is just not compelling. You do batch orders like that hundreds and thousands of times to get your skill up and eventually maybe get to make a useful item, if you can get the recipe.
Many of the biggest adventuring quests arent any better. It's grind out kills to get faction before you can even start the quest. Or kill hundreds of creatures to get a drop that you need 10 of to get one piece of a recipe that will eventually give you a decent item.
For people who have unlimited time and like to do repetitive monotonous things they may enjoy this game. I know a few people who like to watch tv and barely pay attention to Vanguard while they craft or do diplomacy, it's easy to do there's little thought to either process. I understand your fresh to the game, and yeah I enjoyed it too up until the mid teens. From there it kept getting worse and worse, more monotonous and more repetitive.
Sounds like just about every other MMORPG out there...yep...sure does. There is a huge, huge difference though. Vanguard is huge! Three huge continents to explore. A european flaovered one, oriental flaovered one and a middle-eastern flaovered one. Vanguard has many, many classes that are not all cookie cutter. Vanguard has free roaming mounts(both on the ground and in the air) and ships! Vanguard is pretty much the fantasy version of SWG as someone else mentioned. Vanguard will mature in time and it is starting to shine.
The difference is other games are innovating with new and better gameplay. Vanguard is less innovative than wow. A few Ui additions is about it. Diplomacy as implemented is not an innovation. Seriously all the huge world does is give you the ability to fight in the different regions at every level. Wow has as much variation in it's zone, you just cant access them until you hit the right level.
The classes in Vanguard while nice in terms of gameplay but they are all generic and nonsensical. You can have a group with an Orc Dread Knight, a Dark Elf Necromancer, a High Elf Paladin, a Dwarven Cleric, a Vulmane Ranger, and a Qalian Bard. What kind of realistic world would have this bunch of individuals working together? How can you feel any sense of immersion in this blatantly unrealistic world.
Nice review, and a nice discussion that follows it. Makes we want to pick it up and try it out. Do they have a free trial by any chance?
Anyhoo, even though the review and the following discussion caught my attention, I still have this feeling that this game will steal all my time, and that I would have used my time better if I played another singleplayer RPG. It is important for me that the MMO element is there; I would like to hear your opinion on grouping and raiding and inter-player economy and all that has to do with the "MMO" element of the genre. Since things generally takes longer to accomplish, and usually takes much more monotonous tasks, it is important that I am rewarded with something in return - with a focus on the MMO aspect.
Anyway, thanks for a thourough review. Still remians to see if I will try it out though.
Hello there, adventurer!
Maybe over exagerating makes your point feel more valid, but it definitely doesn't make me believe it anymore.
I believe this game was released in january or february of this year...unless we are all time travelers a year has definitely NOT passed.Maybe over exagerating makes your point feel more valid, but it definitely doesn't make me believe it anymore.
VG is crap...nuff said
Maybe over exagerating makes your point feel more valid, but it definitely doesn't make me believe it anymore.
VG is crap...nuff said
*EDIT* IN MY OPINION VG is crap...nuff saidYou do not make the final decision on what is good or what is bad. Get your elitist attitude in check, and get off your high horse.
That is by far the most idiotic thing I've heard in this thread yet. Vanguard actually has quests that I've never done before in ANY MMO and I've played WoW. It has so much more to do, crafting actually IS tough, and overall it has a level of immersion that any WoW player would get into if they would just wise up and try it. The combat is pretty much the same with a few minor additions. There are bugs and small problems but overall it's a good game.
As I said before I just returned to the game after totally ditching it (for other games, and yes WoW) after its launch, and I came full circle. If you aren't trying this game because "blah blah I heard its sucks, noone plays that game, WoW is better" then you really shouldn't be looking in these forums anyway. (the vanguard soh forums)
This game has SO much more to offer then WoW, it really does, you just have to work a little harder to get there. You don't have to sit around and BE a certain level to go adventuring, you can pretty much go anywhere you can make it to.
I'm not saying that Vanguard is the best game out there right now, because thats a matter of opinion, and I'm not saying, even, that I'm going to play this game for years on end, because I probably won't (mainly due to the new games being released) but what I am saying, is right now, this is the most diverse game I've seen that is out right now. (Old SWG not included). and thats really saying something.
I believe this game was released in january or february of this year...unless we are all time travelers a year has definitely NOT passed.Maybe over exagerating makes your point feel more valid, but it definitely doesn't make me believe it anymore.
VG is crap...nuff said
Please enlighted us all ....what is not crap? I can't believe I have been wasting my time playing a game that was crap. All along I was enjoying myself and didn't realize that it was an illusion. While your at it, please tell me everything else I like and dislike so I never make this mistake again.
been bak twice now to retry and the game is still DULL...scrub around that 1...trust
I closed and open beta tested this game it sounds like they haven't fixed a lot of problems from the closed and open beta stages of the game a lot of the major issues that were mentioned in the OP's review are from the closed and open beta stages of this game. IMO this game had an incredable amount of potential to be a great game the framework is there but the effort was half assed IMHO. Those bugs with graphics and getting stuck as well as player movement are all issues that i would expect to see in the beta stages of the game maybe not to the degree taht they are present in this game but for a beta test it was acceptable. To see that they have not fixed these things after this long leads me to believe that they aren't going to or that the programming in the first place was so poor that it is taking a lot longer than expected and they are having to retool the whole thing. I wish that they would have NOT released this game and fixed the bugs that we reported in the closed and open beta stages of the game. It saddens me to see a game with a lot of potential to be great be so poorly managed.
Don't get me wrong here this is not a bash on the game but rather it is disapointment that these issues still persist after this long. IMO they should not have released it until these issues were at least under some control.
Nice review.
As with any review, it is inherently based on an opinion, and opinions always vary. But the review didn't gloss over things like the graphical flicker (I can't stand that). Overall Vanguard does have great potential, but the bugs just get overwhelming still. The names thing is also annoying - it has nothing to do with server numbers or age, and everything to do with using the EQ system of unique first name only, rather than the EVE system of unique first and last name. Having a space as a valid character opens up so many more names, it's just poor design (in my view lazy) to stick with the old "one string no spaces" system.
Such as? I've heard complaints in this thread that those who dont like Vanguard are being vague but I answered pretty specifically what I didnt like about the game and all I get back is this. What quests are so great in VG and what is it that makes them good? In my experience this is simply not true. The quests are weak and seem like they were for the most part chucked in just to give people something to do. Many other games have much more polish to them, the quests sound more interesting the story's are better and the actual act of completeing them is more interesting with less grind.
This isnt just my opinion check out this thread in the official forums.
http://forums.station.sony.com/vg/posts/list.m?topic_id=22115
Such as? I've heard complaints in this thread that those who dont like Vanguard are being vague but I answered pretty specifically what I didnt like about the game and all I get back is this. What quests are so great in VG and what is it that makes them good? In my experience this is simply not true. The quests are weak and seem like they were for the most part chucked in just to give people something to do. Many other games have much more polish to them, the quests sound more interesting the story's are better and the actual act of completeing them is more interesting with less grind.
This isnt just my opinion check out this thread in the official forums.
http://forums.station.sony.com/vg/posts/list.m?topic_id=22115
Ok could one guess that all the small local storys in the quests was a mistake as it is *known* that it should all work for a greater story concerning the grand scheme? I don't know but I do find these independent small storys to be great.
There is alot of grinding quests, ok, but there is no problem with that. Why should there be a problem qith having many grinding quests, should it be better to leave out the grinding quest as people can't see the forest because of all the trees.
There are also alot of short stories told about the place where you are currently at which has no bearing on the greater grand scheme of things. And when you move to next place you maybe won't be continued on these but you will pick up other storys. In these small quests and storys you will also find these kill 9000 wolves to gets 2 pelts, ok.
It could be that you are to investigate, by diplomacy, how some guys old friends are doing. Can be that you are to find out where a lost son has come. The quests where the local crafter needs humongus amounts of pelts I tend not to see them and not let them take overhand on the so called real quest, not just because they are there anyway (if you gonna grind awhile why not let it be done with a slight purpose).
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
Personally I found that even the way they did the small local stories was weak lacking anything compellling about them. Plus doing them isnt refelcted in the greater world. Lotro for instance will have npc's react to you once you've completed a quest that helps them. They shout out as you walk by "Thanks for killing that pack of wolves for us, it's made our lives a lot easier." Or something similar. In many ways it's little details but they make the world feel real, and Vanguard is missing that.
What is compelling then, a general grand story? The story writing in Vanguard is not any worse in any other game in general, why should it be.
It is nice that they do that in LOTRO but that doesn't mean that Vanguard have to do it, should be adding it for the game ok that would be nice. But a must because they've do it in LOTRO, nah.
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
I'm not saying they have to do it, it's just one feature that sets Lotro above Vanguard. The story, how npc's react to you, the instanced events bring that game to life and make it far superior to Vanguard in that aspect. So what does Vanguard have that sets it apart? A large lifeless world that's about it. The ability to grind forever on all the assorted little things like crafting workorders, civic diplomacy, faction, repetitive grind quests like the Arena or for schematics by the isle of madness. It's weak in the gameplay department, unless you like monotonous grinding.