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Yet another SWG playerbase meltdown
soecabal
Member Posts: 115
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/posts/list.m?topic_id=500249
Seems that these "devs" couldn't figure out a way to make their "heroic encounters" challenging without destroying an entire profession. Which proves that all their "heroic mobs" are is a million HP and huge unstoppable damage.
Took them 6 months to come up with THAT?!
I am all for these changes and I hope Blixtev sticks to his guns and it goes live and they ban everyone who complains. It's basically to the point where the best interest of this game is to die. The thing already has the lid on the coffin and several nails driven into it, and this one is a railroad spike.
Once again, changes like this are proof positive that:
1. The Devs of SWG are not very talented, if this is the best solution to this problem they could come up with in 6 months when their customers can come up with hundreds of BETTER solutions in six seconds it's proof that they need to go the way of the paper MCSE's of the late 90's and go into another profession.
2. The Devs of SWG when confronted with ANY problem will ALWAYS take the EASIEST way out even if it impacts EVERYONE.
3. Even after there being many MANY riots and meltdowns after changes of this and greater magnitude, they still can't forsee any of it and create more such.
4. The Dev team isn't talented enough to keep this thing going much longer.
---
Who knows what evil lurks in the heart of SOE?
The Cabal Knows
Comments
You underestimate the power of the Dark Side. If you will not CANCEL NOW, then you will meet your destiny.
Seriously though.. I'm sure the hardcore fanboys won't cancel even if SOE turns all character models to dog turds and makes them jump everytime they fire special
The SWG brain trust has really stepped into it with this one.
While I was reading one page of comments, the comments grew by two pages.
I kid you not.
What is so infuriating about these guys is they absolutely refuse to learn anything from their mistakes...like the failure to communicate the changes well in advance which they did not do with the CU and the NGE, and just spring this massive nerf of medic on the playerbase...changing the existing game to fit with their 'concept' of the heroic instance, instead of changing the heroic instance to fit in with the current game.
They are irredeemably bassackwards.
They DO NOT LEARN from their mistakes.
They wonder why they lose subscriptions.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
As I said, they aren't qualified developers. The good devs SWG once had have long gone off to lead other projects (with other companies). SOE's good devs (and they do have them) are all working on their EQ games (the only part of SOE making them significant money despite the decline) or on their 3 MMOs coming out next year.
The SWG dev team are a bunch of incompetent holdovers (Blixtev) from the old dev team augmented by a bunch of "paper MCSE" type Devs, Devs who may have some BS degree or certification claiming they are a Dev, but lacking any experience or more importanly, any ability. They got into the MMO industry because currently it's a bubble (because of all the VC thrown at MMO developer houses since the WoW success) and insane money is being thrown at them.
You would be shocked to know that most of SWG's devs make near or over 6 figure incomes, despite most of them being under 30 and never having their name associated with any successful commercial game release. SWG is the FIRST MMO dev job for the majority of them.
That sort of "success" at that kind of youth breeds it's own arrogance. Couple that with Sony's corporate culture which does nothing to discourage that attitude, and you can comprehend how such a mindset is possible.
It's really mind boggling. SWG is a business that depends on the customer not only buying the product and service, but in them REBUYING it EVERY MONTH... Yet, the attitude isn't at ALL customer friendly. Indeed, the customer is NEVER right.
And they wonder why they fail? It really isn't any more complicated than that.
Fact of the matter is, the MMO bubble is about to burst bigtime when the VC dries up when it becomes more and more obvious that NO ONE has a 9 million sub (or even a 900,000 sub) up their sleeve anytime soon. Already two have failed, Sigil and Perpetual. SOE will die not because VC funding will dry up (since they don't depend on that) but because of their reputation.
And I doubt that very many, if ANY of the SWG current Dev team survive the crash of the MMO bubble and remain in the industry post crash.
Sigil's implosion was the first sign that venture capital is drying up.... And Sigil was led by the man who is most creditied for EQ's success. How likely are any of these other startups going to be able to keep the VC's happy while not producing any revenue?
Their games will die and never be released (like perpetual) or they will release unfinished and fail (Vanguard)
---
Who knows what evil lurks in the heart of SOE?
The Cabal Knows
And you know how many of those people actually tried the change to the medics rez? About ZERO, because if they did they would realize that it's a good change. They are also not taking into account the AWESOME new rewards you can earn from the new Heroic encounters. Like in Diablo II you can build sets of items that vastly increase the power of your character with the power increasing as you add on more pieces of set, including things like instant cooldowns on abilitys, huge stat increases and new abilitys.
Out of combat a medic can still rez a player about every 12 seconds. And as always what is on test center is not how it could end up when the publish hits live. The new content is great, get on TC to try it out.
SOE screwing the SWG player base!?!?!
What!?!?! No Way!?!?!?
/sarcasm
It's obvious that as long as there is an SOE behind SWG, nothing good will ever come to this game. Sure there will be people playing that are enjoying them selves. I don't doubt this as the game it's self when simply played with no true ties to it, is fun. However for a gamer or an MMO vet, this is the bottom of the barrel type game. This is as far as you can get from a good game. It is clear they have screwed over their player base time and time again, otherwise there wouldn't be so many SWG vets crying about wanting Pre-CU servers coming back.(yes I'm one of them) However with the way SOE is running this game into the ground, it just seems like they WANT this game to fail! Maybe smed got his ass kicked by a bunch of Star Wars fans because he was dressed up in his Star Trek uniform 20 years ago??? And now he will do everything he can to destroy anything Star Wars related
_________________________________
Currently Playing: Eve-Online
On the Backburner: EQ2
Retired: EQ, DAoC, WW2Online
RIP: AC2
Tried: Ryzom, Roma Victor, RoM, KH2, Forsaken World, AO, AoC, APB
Quit: SWG PRE-CU(Radiant/Starsider), WoW
Achiever 47% / Explorer 40% / Killer 87% / Socializer 27%
I just want them to axe the damn game so I never have to see that SWG Icon again, there's nothing worse than a franchise being milked for all it's worth but it seems that SOE is doing this to the extreme and clinging onto the license like the greedy buggers they are.
Quoting people doesn't make you clever, in fact, it makes you all the more stupid for not bothering to read the quotes you post in the first place.
I still wonder why people bother to be surprised with how SWG is being handled.
They already prooved that they can make drastic change to the game or take the easiest path many time.
They will retain a playerbase, some will always play it but that doesn't mean they are attracting more people with the way they go on.
As for those defending the game still, well no grudge against you guys but the medic fix should have been done way before that and the weapon modification sounds like a bad news for crafters. Sure I do not have the details on how it is actually working but that does still sounds like the weapon crafters are getting hit on that one.
Clone zerging is the problem, not medic mass rezzing. People who think that it's all the Medic's fault have never played in mass pvp, which I have, and in fact was considered one of the best medics on the largest pvp oriented server in the game.
When you rez in combat about all you did was get someone back up off the ground. Thanks to the uber super buffs introduced in CH5/6 no one can fight people with those buffs if they don't have them, so those who hadn't died yet had the advantage.
No, medics being able to rez quickly wasn't causing problems EXCEPT with their new "super foozle" instances, and God forbid the SWG Devs actually do something innovative for once rather than take the quick and easy way out and destroy one of the core abilities of one of only seven combat professions, thus basically making it useless.
Want proof that it's easier to destroy, rather than create? Look at the history of SWG.
Not to mention that the Devs didn't bother to discuss this MAJOR profession change with ANYONE before throwing it on TC. This is about the 9,999th time they've done something like this and the SAME reaction has happened. Sorry, it wasn't an oversight, it wasn't a "failure of communication" it was a deliberate lie by omission. Simply put, when they are going to do something they know people won't like they always slide it in under the cover of darkness and try to get away with letting people know about it as late as possible.
This strategy has YET to once work for them or result in the community not being ripped into turmoil. Why do they keep doing it?
Simple... They haven't learned jack crap from all their mistakes.
---
Who knows what evil lurks in the heart of SOE?
The Cabal Knows
Clone zerging is the problem, not medic mass rezzing. People who think that it's all the Medic's fault have never played in mass pvp, which I have, and in fact was considered one of the best medics on the largest pvp oriented server in the game.
When you rez in combat about all you did was get someone back up off the ground. Thanks to the uber super buffs introduced in CH5/6 no one can fight people with those buffs if they don't have them, so those who hadn't died yet had the advantage.
No, medics being able to rez quickly wasn't causing problems EXCEPT with their new "super foozle" instances, and God forbid the SWG Devs actually do something innovative for once rather than take the quick and easy way out and destroy one of the core abilities of one of only seven combat professions, thus basically making it useless.
Want proof that it's easier to destroy, rather than create? Look at the history of SWG.
Not to mention that the Devs didn't bother to discuss this MAJOR profession change with ANYONE before throwing it on TC. This is about the 9,999th time they've done something like this and the SAME reaction has happened. Sorry, it wasn't an oversight, it wasn't a "failure of communication" it was a deliberate lie by omission. Simply put, when they are going to do something they know people won't like they always slide it in under the cover of darkness and try to get away with letting people know about it as late as possible.
This strategy has YET to once work for them or result in the community not being ripped into turmoil. Why do they keep doing it?
Simple... They haven't learned jack crap from all their mistakes.
I must ask you as you talk as-if you are experienced in the game development industry, do you have any experience in game development? being theory, 3d modelling, animation, ideas, production etc, professionally?
What are you talking about? He made no such claims or comments. It makes we wonder if you're trying to discredit another's opinion in a subtle manner.
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
In fact, forget the SWG!!!!
What are you talking about? He made no such claims or comments. It makes we wonder if you're trying to discredit another's opinion in a subtle manner.
Please re-read my post, i didn't state that he made such claims, it is a simple valid question that i am hoping to get an answer for.
Clone zerging is the problem, not medic mass rezzing. People who think that it's all the Medic's fault have never played in mass pvp, which I have, and in fact was considered one of the best medics on the largest pvp oriented server in the game.
When you rez in combat about all you did was get someone back up off the ground. Thanks to the uber super buffs introduced in CH5/6 no one can fight people with those buffs if they don't have them, so those who hadn't died yet had the advantage.
No, medics being able to rez quickly wasn't causing problems EXCEPT with their new "super foozle" instances, and God forbid the SWG Devs actually do something innovative for once rather than take the quick and easy way out and destroy one of the core abilities of one of only seven combat professions, thus basically making it useless.
Want proof that it's easier to destroy, rather than create? Look at the history of SWG.
Not to mention that the Devs didn't bother to discuss this MAJOR profession change with ANYONE before throwing it on TC. This is about the 9,999th time they've done something like this and the SAME reaction has happened. Sorry, it wasn't an oversight, it wasn't a "failure of communication" it was a deliberate lie by omission. Simply put, when they are going to do something they know people won't like they always slide it in under the cover of darkness and try to get away with letting people know about it as late as possible.
This strategy has YET to once work for them or result in the community not being ripped into turmoil. Why do they keep doing it?
Simple... They haven't learned jack crap from all their mistakes.
Iagree with this. They killed PvP with all the buffs its lame the game should be called BuffWars not Starwars . the real sorry about what im saying is I still play the game lol i'll never learn. p.s. i play beastmaster and crafting only peace
Good changes, bad changes, who cares? I doubt anyone here even want, or are interested, to try out these changes. Besides that I think most of us here can't even try it out because of cancelled accounts.
Now I'm not sure just how I would be able to best describe my (and possibly many others) ...feelings regarding the NGE, to those of you that happen to like the NGE? I'll try with this:
"Changes or addons to the NGE are insignificant to that of the fun and power of the old game of SWG!".
What are you talking about? He made no such claims or comments. It makes we wonder if you're trying to discredit another's opinion in a subtle manner.
Please re-read my post, i didn't state that he made such claims, it is a simple valid question that i am hoping to get an answer for.
The question isn't relevant to the issue raised, which is why are they once again making a major change without discussing it before committing to it taking place?
I mean, didn't Smed himself apologize for taking this very approach two years ago with the NGE, just in the last week?
Once they put something on TC, it's an indicator that they are committed to the change no matter what. Instead of of adapting the "heroic instance" concept to the game they have, they're insisting on modifying the game to fit their "heroic instance" concept.
This is the equivalent of cutting off toes to get the foot to fit into a shoe. One does not have to have the slightest technical experience in 3d modelling, animation, or coding to see that on a fundamental level it's an approach that is bound to upset your customers.
Obviously, the lesson of the CU debacle and the NGE debacle has not been learned in Austin.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
What can i say, SOE and SWG ... Ive been looking at SWG again after a long time even tried to play a bit because i really miss the old game. It still sucks badly! The game is copletely dumb now compared to before, there is some good things about it but the bad things make u forget the good ones real quick, not to mention the terrible combat system, empty servers, and after all the crap its still unbalanced. I have station access and the only thing i can stand is to login once in a while and chat with friends.
As i see SOE dont care much about SWG anymore, and even when they used to do so they didnt care much about customers opinions. I can imagine now.
What are you talking about? He made no such claims or comments. It makes we wonder if you're trying to discredit another's opinion in a subtle manner.
He is MX13. Obviously the post in question was spoken from the perspective of an experienced player, as are most of the posts here, whose perspectives and claims about the game ring true based on reality (i.e. TRUTH), not on whether his resume says "game designer" or not. His attempt to invalidate those claims merely by the fact the author is not part of the corrupt,arrogant, insipid gaming superstructure that is the cause of this mass exodus from swg and a general state of decline in the mmo genre is the type of rhetoric that not only squelches free thought, free expression and creativity in the industry, but in America itself. { Mod Edit }
"The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion." -Edmund Burke
Who will rise up for me against the evildoers? or who will stand up for me against the workers of iniquity?"
(Psalm 94:16)
Without even seeing these "heroic encounters" I agree with soecabal that they are likely simply mobs with god-aweful HAM and ridiculous firepower, because that has usually been the way these things are handled.
I'm one of the more reasonable and fair-minded fellers out here but this bit even has me shaking my head.
Clone zerging is the problem, not medic mass rezzing. People who think that it's all the Medic's fault have never played in mass pvp, which I have, and in fact was considered one of the best medics on the largest pvp oriented server in the game.
When you rez in combat about all you did was get someone back up off the ground. Thanks to the uber super buffs introduced in CH5/6 no one can fight people with those buffs if they don't have them, so those who hadn't died yet had the advantage.
No, medics being able to rez quickly wasn't causing problems EXCEPT with their new "super foozle" instances, and God forbid the SWG Devs actually do something innovative for once rather than take the quick and easy way out and destroy one of the core abilities of one of only seven combat professions, thus basically making it useless.
Want proof that it's easier to destroy, rather than create? Look at the history of SWG.
Not to mention that the Devs didn't bother to discuss this MAJOR profession change with ANYONE before throwing it on TC. This is about the 9,999th time they've done something like this and the SAME reaction has happened. Sorry, it wasn't an oversight, it wasn't a "failure of communication" it was a deliberate lie by omission. Simply put, when they are going to do something they know people won't like they always slide it in under the cover of darkness and try to get away with letting people know about it as late as possible.
This strategy has YET to once work for them or result in the community not being ripped into turmoil. Why do they keep doing it?
Simple... They haven't learned jack crap from all their mistakes.
I must ask you as you talk as-if you are experienced in the game development industry, do you have any experience in game development? being theory, 3d modelling, animation, ideas, production etc, professionally?
No, but I could probably pull it off more convincingly than anyone doing that for SWG right now.
---
Who knows what evil lurks in the heart of SOE?
The Cabal Knows
You should consider a career as a developer, seeing as though you seem to know how to get every game on the market millions of subscribers, thanks.
What are you talking about? He made no such claims or comments. It makes we wonder if you're trying to discredit another's opinion in a subtle manner.
Please re-read my post, i didn't state that he made such claims, it is a simple valid question that i am hoping to get an answer for.
The question isn't relevant to the issue raised, which is why are they once again making a major change without discussing it before committing to it taking place?
I mean, didn't Smed himself apologize for taking this very approach two years ago with the NGE, just in the last week?
Once they put something on TC, it's an indicator that they are committed to the change no matter what. Instead of of adapting the "heroic instance" concept to the game they have, they're insisting on modifying the game to fit their "heroic instance" concept.
This is the equivalent of cutting off toes to get the foot to fit into a shoe. One does not have to have the slightest technical experience in 3d modelling, animation, or coding to see that on a fundamental level it's an approach that is bound to upset your customers.
Obviously, the lesson of the CU debacle and the NGE debacle has not been learned in Austin.
I am dissapointed that this was throwen on TC as a surprise, considering they brought in the Senate system to help the Devs communicate between the playerbase. Profession changes should at least be proposed through the respectic Senator. It's also slightly amusing that they are once again trying to nerf Medic with a major chapter. Chapter 6 saw them attempt to add diminishing returns to heals if too many were done in a period of time. This was scrapped before it left TC due to the complaints (which negates your TC = set in stone statement).I can kinda see their point on the PvE side of things, it does remove alot of the challenge if you just have a team of Medics rezzing on death. However it doesn't work for PvP, it's going to kill long battles such as the 3 hour long battle we had on Chilastra a few weeks ago and the hour and a half battle the other night. As soon as one person per medic dies on the opposite side the battle will be over.
There is however a good chance that this will be altered thanks to the Medic Senator. The idea that he proposed to Blixtev, which he seemed to like the idea of, is that there will be a PvP and a PvE set of rezes. the PvP set will have the same timers and combat conditions as the ones on Live do now, except they can only be used on other SF players and only while you're TEF'ed (the one that lasts around 2-5mins and locks you out of of private houses). The PvE set will work like the ones on TC.
Nor do you think that pro-NGE'ers want to see the merrits of pre-CU?
Regardless, I think the information provided to both sides of the argument has been interesting and enlightning if one so chooses to see it that way. Otherwise a narrow view will always see it as "trolling".
So you storm out of the room in a huff.
And this is an example why debate never gets anywhere in this forum, my point exactly, the less mature base seems to result to personal attacks.
Personal attacks?
I"m not the one who demanded a CV of gaming development skills here. You did, and when you were called on it, you immediately went to ground.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
Actually, by SOE's critieria, one of my previous jobs I was what they'd call a "Dev".
I worked in QA for a huge company. In fact, the largest computer company in the world. My job was to test all features in software and driver code for our RAID storage controllers, find glitches, suggest features, and work with the coders themselves to fix/impliment things until the product was released, and post-release for further enhancements, etc.
I know how it's done. Take a look at how Blixtev came to the conclusion that they "must nerf medics to make their heroic encounters work". They took a bunch of Devs and ran the instances over and over.
That's all fine and good. But the important point is what they DIDNT do... They didn't take their team and then test ALL THE OTHER scenarios where medic rezzes are used (such as mass pvp). Which meant that their solution to the problem was proposed and accepted in a vaccum without even the slightest grasp of it's total implication, only what that change would do to the SINGLE problem (making their million HP meatbags a challenge) and ignoring/not bothering to find out what the total implication would be.
That is NOT how you responsibly develop anything. But it's a damn good model for keeping your customers pissed off. It's a surefire model for making sure that whatever you produce is incoherent junk, and ensuring that your publishes keep adding more garbage both to the code and the core systems, since THERE IS NO CONSIDERATION OF THE BIG PICTURE, only focus on momentary expediency.
There you go, there is my qualified evaluation of their development of this nerf, spoken from my BACKGROUND in development. Does that satisfy you?
---
Who knows what evil lurks in the heart of SOE?
The Cabal Knows
Really, Obriak. Do you actually think they'll come up with a whole new system to do this?
Have they ever done ANYTHING remotely like that? Created a whole new system to reverse a nerf? I admire your blind optimism, but that's quite a reach.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
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