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I'm speechless - Darkfall .. is coming

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  • vajurasvajuras Member Posts: 2,860

     

    Originally posted by atziluth

    Originally posted by vajuras


     funny do you know who I am or where I work you have no clue. My name is in the credits for multiple PC titles. funny post. I never ever said I didnt work on PC titles. 1 million shipped. In a very old post, I said our PC team at my "current" studio is a lot different from the console team due to the fact they rely on "patches" while on Console side that team worries about passing Microsoft/Sony certifications to ship. So crashes are pretty unacceptable for Console development thats what I was trying to say. ever since then you totally misread my posts and I assumed I was just "Console" developer which is pretty ridiculous I never said that. especially seeing as how I'm a programmer what do heck do you think I'm gonna code on at home for fun a PS3? lol.....
    You are right... sifting through your posts (several hundred anyway) there was nothing definitive saying you only working in Console development. You do tend to talk more positively about console development then PC in numerous posts. You are right I don't know who you are so I cannot say one way or another what you do period. You can claim anything you like... I could claim to be a NASA scientist and without a name there is nothing you can say to disprove me. For the record I take you at your word that you work in the industry. From checking out several development sites and reading articles from veteran developers they seem to feel both PC and Console are about equal in difficulty. I can give you the sources if you would like. For the time you spend in development one thing I have noticed is you seem to loath PC development. In fact most of your posts that deal with your field belittle PC development as an almost childish pastime compared to console. Is it any wonder I assumed you to be console exclusively?
    Next, just go visit Sony Austin or other studios. Very small, small teams. MMO Developers being huge is a serious myth. not a requirement. bigger teams help sure. but sometimes just reducing team size and spending much longer developing a title is the way to go. Many major publishers are doing this now. I dont have to explain myself just go visit gamasutra sometime. You know, a Game Developer website.
    I guess we have to define small. Indie game developers are small. I expect DF to be a small team. More corporate companies like Blizzard, SOE, and Mythic would tend to be larger. What do you define as a "small" team? Is it 5 people, 10 people, 25 people? Are you including managers, artists, programmers, QA, etc... or just the programmers? Typical indie teams are usually around 10 people. Is that a good gauge for a "small" team?
    And yes of course game studios often contract other studios for external work. That's how I go into the industry I did contract work. See post below --->
    Lets try for a company that does not pump out an MMO every year shall we? I know you have a WoW box and an EQII box laying around... they got credits to external artists as well? 

     

     

    Now I love PC development thats how I got into the industry. I was saying in that post long ago that PC programmers at "my current studio" don't seem to watch out for crashes and poor memory management. Nor do they worry as much about performance. But thats at my current studio. There's many other studios out there that are a lot more efficient then where I work of course. Like Infinity Award for instance (Call of Duty).

    I dunno maybe I'm heavily biased but I started out as an Indie Developer. I'm not directly anwsering your question in regards to team size but Indies have a lot of advantages over 1st party (game publisher) and 3rd party (big studios that contract services out). edit- but to give you an idea an Indie team can be big or small. My old Indie team years and years ago was 20+. No one got paid upfront. Everyone did it for love, recognition, and for the experience. I still call up my old team now that we're all in the industry and we all still agree that was one of our most fun titles EVER

    Advantages:

    1) More mobile - they dont have a stock holder to anwser too. They can create something for pure fun.

    2) Can take a lot more risks

    3) Sometimes you have a much cleaner codebase when you have a small crack team of programmers setting it up. I'm staring at a huge codebase at my current job thats a nightmare to sift through. Take ID Software. Small, small team of veteran programmers. Less than ten was the count my friend told me.

     4) After the product is developed you can sell it to a Game Publisher and many say this is more profitable because you have a lot more leverge (See PoTBS developer logs)

    EQ2 ->

    I know personally an Art studio that contracted for EQ2. He built the costumes. He's called "Dragon". He does pieces for EA, many, many movies, etc. "Dragon" runs one of the most successful scifi studios in this industry. (cant find my book to EQ2 tho that lists the credits but I do know Dragon did contract work for them)

    WoW-

    My friend is an enviroment artist there. He said he was hella shocked to see how small Blizz keeps their teams.

    Game Industry is small, tight nit. That's what makes our industry different from others. A guy can get fired and someone on other side of America literally called me once and told me why. I didnt even know yet why the guy got canned.

     

    Cryptic (City of Heroes) -

    of course they don't release a new MMO every year. They released City of Heroes and City of Villains. Thjat's not a new MMO every year.

  • angelsfangangelsfang Member Posts: 93

    actually i too was under the impression that Aventurine is a rather small company, similar to the one that developed Dark and Light (cant remember the name, but the dev team only had like 25 people?)

     

    The videos look nice and all, but whether or not the engine and server can smoothly process GvG is the biggest concern.  Because of the way the game is played, any slight lag during combat would put you off like in CS.

  • vajurasvajuras Member Posts: 2,860

    okay here's link to Liquid:

    http://www.liquiddevelopment.com/

     

    they're credited to help with Auto Assault, City of Heroes (hit), DDO-Turbine, Origin-Ultima Online, Guild Wars, and many others

     

    its possible to keep teams small do to ability to contract out art content. Everyone does it, EA, Turbine, NCSoft, etc.

    My current team at my publisher we're doing it all internally due to our really long dev cycle but I know our 'sister' team working on a related title is contracting all their work out due to a short dev cycle

     

     

     

  • winterwinter Member UncommonPosts: 2,281
    Originally posted by Athl


    If it comes out, it comes out. If it doesn't, it doesn't. If they happen to ever pull this off, it would be interesting to play. All you haters with your big egotistical, "LOLZ I HEARD ABOUT DIS YRS AGO LOL BETA NEVAR KAME OUT LOL IDIOT" can continue with their self indulgent crap and completely miss the point of the thread, which was to discuss what this game thinks it has to offer.



     If the point 0f the thread is "to discuss what this game thinks it has to offer" Then you need to seriously rethink you thread title. Seriously you don't know anything, your whole source is a link almost a year old and on that you come out with DF is coming! Stop BS'ing, when you have a beta date then you can start promising the games coming out soon etc. In the meantime stop wasting our time blowing smoke.  

  • KatovaKatova Member UncommonPosts: 184

    wow that looks amazing.

    image

    image

  • ClassicstarClassicstar Member UncommonPosts: 2,697

    Originally posted by Torak


    People have been posting this type of thing since it was suppost to go to beta..... in 2004. Think about that, they missed their beta launch by almost 4 years soon... 
    Its amazing people even follow it. The company has no credibilty whatso ever. You are just setting yourself up for a big disappointment by keeping your hopes up for this game. The ideas are interesting but its never going to release.
    I keep follow it and i hope it will come one day!

    In meanwhile i play other mmorpgs but when DFO is released i stop playing.

    Buy it and gonne play it on day one!

    Hope is good and surtenly for a game like DFO if released it will be mother of all open pvp games out there:)

    If you dont wanne follow nobody FORCE YOU to follow it:)

    Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!

    MB:Asus V De Luxe z77
    CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k
    GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now))
    MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
    PSU:Corsair AX1200i
    OS:Windows 10 64bit

  • atziluthatziluth Member UncommonPosts: 1,190

    Originally posted by vajuras


    Now I love PC development thats how I got into the industry. I was saying in that post long ago that PC programmers at "my current studio" don't seem to watch out for crashes and poor memory management. Nor do they worry as much about performance. But thats at my current studio. There's many other studios out there that are a lot more efficient then where I work of course. Like Infinity Award for instance (Call of Duty).
    I dunno maybe I'm heavily biased but I started out as an Indie Developer. I'm not directly anwsering your question in regards to team size but Indies have a lot of advantages over 1st party (game publisher) and 3rd party (big studios that contract services out). edit- but to give you an idea an Indie team can be big or small. My old Indie team years and years ago was 20+. No one got paid upfront. Everyone did it for love, recognition, and for the experience. I still call up my old team now that we're all in the industry and we all still agree that was one of our most fun titles EVER
    Advantages:
    1) More mobile - they dont have a stock holder to anwser too. They can create something for pure fun.
    2) Can take a lot more risks
    3) Sometimes you have a much cleaner codebase when you have a small crack team of programmers setting it up. I'm staring at a huge codebase at my current job thats a nightmare to sift through. Take ID Software. Small, small team of veteran programmers. Less than ten was the count my friend told me.
     4) After the product is developed you can sell it to a Game Publisher and many say this is more profitable because you have a lot more leverge (See PoTBS developer logs)
    EQ2 ->
    I know personally an Art studio that contracted for EQ2. He built the costumes. He's called "Dragon". He does pieces for EA, many, many movies, etc. "Dragon" runs one of the most successful scifi studios in this industry. (cant find my book to EQ2 tho that lists the credits but I do know Dragon did contract work for them)
    WoW-
    My friend is an enviroment artist there. He said he was hella shocked to see how small Blizz keeps their teams.
    Game Industry is small, tight nit. That's what makes our industry different from others. A guy can get fired and someone on other side of America literally called me once and told me why. I didnt even know yet why the guy got canned.
     
    Cryptic (City of Heroes) -
    of course they don't release a new MMO every year. They released City of Heroes and City of Villains. Thjat's not a new MMO every year.
    Lineage - 1998

    Lineage II - 2003

    CoH - 2004 (Cryptic Studios)

    CoV - 2005 (Cryptic Studios)

    Guild Wars - 2005

    Auto Assault - 2006

    Dungeon Runners - 2007

    Tabula Rasa - est. 2007

    Aion - est. 2008

     

    As you can see NCSoft has been very busy. Since 2003 they have averaged about 1 MMO every year. Cryptic Studios is a small indie developer who release back to back MMOs within a year of each other... granted they are both the same genre but still sold separately and not as an expansion. So I will say the ONLY games they released so far were a year apart.

     

    I agree that indie developers tend to be be better with the caveat that the need good financial backing. That was not the point you were making however. Your right you did not answer my question directly. Since you failed to do so it is difficult to argue either way as to the size of mainstream MMO development groups. Also you failed to answer what you consider a development group to have for personnel.

     

    As to EQII outsourcing... this post by an actual EQII art lead would seem to contradict what you say. here.

     

    As to this designer named with the tag "dragon" I really hope you don't mean Raph Koster. He used the tag dragon and has worked with SOE and EA as well. If that is not who you are referencing then he can't be too top of his field or you are dropping misleading names for what ever reason. You like to throw out vague statements to back up your points without ever being factual. Some guy you know in the industry named dragon has taken outsource work for EQII? I have a cousins friends uncle who works for this guy that is in one of the top corporations in the world... My statement just like yours does nothing to support any argument in this thread. Sorry be more specific on you sources or don't expect people to except them.

     

    I am not going by one post you made about development... MOST of your various posts on game development in your thread history show a major negativity towards PC development. Many of your posts tend to trivialize PC development just like you did in this thread. One post is not the same as a history of posts. You claim to like PC development, but your history shows you seem to belittle it quite a bit.

    -Atziluth-

    - Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.

  • vajurasvajuras Member Posts: 2,860

    okay I'm horrible with names. His name is DRAGON DRONET. He's well known in the movie biz for his work for Batman Dead-End. He's done props for EA (C&C3), Sony (EQII), and many many movies. I was there at his presentation so wtf would anyone ever make this up is beyond me. You can look him up- hes a celebrity. Very cool guy that actually wears the sci-fi clothes and gadgets he makes for movies. Awesome guy. I know he did the props for EQII cover but I wasnt suyre if he did more. I know for C&C3 he did a lot of the props

     

    again this is off topic drivel and seriously its just dumb I have to prove this lol like why would I lie to impress some guy/girl posting on the net. lol.... whatever

  • AmazingAveryAmazingAvery Age of Conan AdvocateMember UncommonPosts: 7,188
    Originally posted by METALDRAG0N


    Not that im supporting darkfall or anything but eve has 34,000 similtanious players so 50,000 isant to far fetched assuming they can afford the right hardware of course.



    Darkfall isnt a fancy screensaver though!



  • vajurasvajuras Member Posts: 2,860

    ouch! EVE is the closest thing you can get to DFO til PoTBS releases tho which will include many similar features (looting, durability hits, crafting, attribute system, player run economy, light itemization, etc). well pirates not the same but kinda close

  • rshandlonrshandlon Member Posts: 173

    Vajuras, I have to call BS on your whole series of claims that you are in the industry and/or know people in the industry.  This Dragon Dronet you speak of DID NOT do any work on EQ2 and/or any other game.  He did PROP work for PR showings and isn't even associated with programming or art work in any media.  Doing prop work is a hell of a lot different than actually doing art in a computer program.  Also, as others have stated you always state very vague claims about your so-called experience when in fact that is all they are.......Claims.  You don't back up any of it with factual data and the one time you quoted someone, you used the misnomer of Dragon, which belongs to a very well known Ralph Koster.  Anyone can come here and claim to be whoever they want, offer no proof and then get laughed out of here so fast you could hear the vacuum form from the escaping wind.  Make claims elsewhere unless you want to prove those claims.

     

    Now as to Darkfall, seems funny a friend of mine talked 3 years ago about how he was going to sign up for beta soon, yet here it is still no beta and don't forget the Guild Beta program from long ago too.  You stated that AoC was supposed to be released in 2006, uhmm show the link and I will believe you.  The only thing I remember then about AoC was them announcing it was in development for a future release.  Again, people can claim all they want, just like Darkfall has, but only proof and factual data can back up any claims.  The developers of Darkfall have NEVER given us proof and/or factual data to back up the claims of progress they have.  All they have given us is screenshots and produced videos that can easily be constructed so as to make it look like a real game.

     

    Darkfall is vapourware plain and simple.  I believe Duke Nukems much hyped sequel will come out before Darkfall even hits beta.

  • vajurasvajuras Member Posts: 2,860

    I'm a programmer so if you ask me anything technical regarding game engines in regards to shaders 2.0/3.0, skeletal/vertex animation, dynamic lighting using cascade / variance shadow mapping techniques, HDR/Bloom setup, multi-core engineering (concurrent programming), C++,  etc.  I'm a core engineer working on PC/Console platforms. if you're not a programmer then obviously we cant have a good conversation together right?

    I could give you a hint how to figure out if I'm telling the truth but meh I really dont care that much.

     

  • vajurasvajuras Member Posts: 2,860

    Ah okay he only did promotions for EQ2: http://www.renegadeeffects.com/Armour.htm (I thought he did the cover at least too). for other stuff like CnC3 he did a lot more but of course CnC3 has live action sequences heh. I was there at the presentation for his work on C&C3 and his countless movie contributions

    okay I got that wrong but so what? I was right about Liquid Entertainment. so like my original point- small studios can utilize other studios for models and such. Turbine, Auto Assault, Cryptic, etc. I know we contract art content out all the time for our small teams at my studio. this information is easily verified with a quick google.

     

    Also every game is vaporware until its at least beta as far as I'm concerned. maybe MMO fans are not accustomed to seeing projects get canceled by those of us that are fan of other genres see pushback and cancelations very often.

     

    so let's say im a liar and I'm some guy that doesnt work in the industry. my point about Liquid Entertainment was correct and I didnt even take the time to look up other well known art studios yet.

  • vajurasvajuras Member Posts: 2,860

    Originally posted by rshandlon


    Vajuras, I have to call BS on your whole series of claims that you are in the industry and/or know people in the industry.  This Dragon Dronet you speak of DID NOT do any work on EQ2 and/or any other game.  He did PROP work for PR showings and isn't even associated with programming or art work in any media.  Doing prop work is a hell of a lot different than actually doing art in a computer program.  Also, as others have stated you always state very vague claims about your so-called experience when in fact that is all they are.......Claims.  You don't back up any of it with factual data and the one time you quoted someone, you used the misnomer of Dragon, which belongs to a very well known Ralph Koster.  Anyone can come here and claim to be whoever they want, offer no proof and then get laughed out of here so fast you could hear the vacuum form from the escaping wind.  Make claims elsewhere unless you want to prove those claims.
     
    Now as to Darkfall, seems funny a friend of mine talked 3 years ago about how he was going to sign up for beta soon, yet here it is still no beta and don't forget the Guild Beta program from long ago too.  You stated that AoC was supposed to be released in 2006, uhmm show the link and I will believe you.  The only thing I remember then about AoC was them announcing it was in development for a future release.  Again, people can claim all they want, just like Darkfall has, but only proof and factual data can back up any claims.  The developers of Darkfall have NEVER given us proof and/or factual data to back up the claims of progress they have.  All they have given us is screenshots and produced videos that can easily be constructed so as to make it look like a real game.
     
    Darkfall is vapourware plain and simple.  I believe Duke Nukems much hyped sequel will come out before Darkfall even hits beta.

    I have yet to read one convincing argument its vaporware is the problem. prove to me they have no source code. I'm a programmer I'd know

    Their videos demonstrate dynamic lighting. Sure, maybe they rendered whole thing out in 3ds max. show me proof

    Small Team Size = not proof

    low budget = not proof. I've shipped low budget games. yep, they were stinkers but they still released

    promise of beta then pushback = not proof too me.

    maybe its vaporware? but you guys just never have made a rational case for me to believe you.

     

  • Xris375Xris375 Member Posts: 1,005
    Originally posted by rshandlon


     
      You stated that AoC was supposed to be released in 2006, uhmm show the link and I will believe you.  
    Ok, let me educate you  -> link  AoC has been pushed back 4 times since that.
    Darkfall is vapourware plain and simple.  I believe Duke Nukems much hyped sequel will come out before Darkfall even hits beta.
    All software is vaporware until released. So what does make DF any different than any game out there ?

     

    ---
    And when we got more women on the team, it was like ‘No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there.’ ”
    John Smedley, SOE

  • vajurasvajuras Member Posts: 2,860

     

    http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=41731  <-- Darkfall Art outsourcing thread.

    it feels good to be right  

  • yamisniperyamisniper Member Posts: 35

    all of them features are already in mostly >.>

  • elitexionelitexion Member Posts: 188

    Actully they have stated these features are in mostly 1 reason y they canceled beta in 2006 is to add all these in XD and get it better XD

  • justinh2007justinh2007 Member Posts: 27

    If they can pull this off it'll be the best mmorpg since star wars galaxies came out

    May the force be with you

  • EuthorusEuthorus Member Posts: 491

    Originally posted by Gameloading


    What other low budget MMORPG promised heaven?



    Ah yes, Mourning, Dark & Light, Roma Victor.

    Add Vanguard and Shadow Bane

    FUNCOM - putting the FUN in disFUNctional !

  • Duplo1Duplo1 Member Posts: 45
    Originally posted by Euthorus


     
    Originally posted by Gameloading


    What other low budget MMORPG promised heaven?



    Ah yes, Mourning, Dark & Light, Roma Victor.

     

    Add Vanguard and Shadow Bane

    Vanguard was not low budget. It just had crap management.

  • QuestionableQuestionable Member Posts: 653

    Originally posted by Euthorus


     
    Originally posted by Gameloading


    What other low budget MMORPG promised heaven?



    Ah yes, Mourning, Dark & Light, Roma Victor.

     

    Add Vanguard and Shadow Bane

    Well than its a good thing DF isnt low budget now isnt it?

  • elitexionelitexion Member Posts: 188

    yea no way low budget LOL there just pulled a 20 million dolla bond 2 months ago or some where around that lol it was low budget until they merged : )

  • freakomarfreakomar Member Posts: 415

    They have been doing projects for the military. That means they're pretty stable financially.

    Played almost everything...
    Currently playing nothing...
    Waiting for: Darkfall, WAR, Guild Wars 2.

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