this game is destroying itself, it doesn't need player feedback

2

Comments

  • Mars505Mars505 Mars, AKMember Posts: 623
    Originally posted by Fargol

    Originally posted by Mars505

    Originally posted by Fargol

    Originally posted by Mars505

    Originally posted by Thamoris

    Originally posted by thedge


    I agree with the OP, great comments, perception, and stated facts.
    A great deal of this was bad timing as well in the MMO realm. While I don't think it is fair to compare VG directly to LOTR (or even WoW), I think what upsets folks is that these games are much more polished than VG in comparison. While LOTR might not be the taste for most VG players, when you play a beta that is so smooth and well built in (early) content and mechanics, and then see what VG is as a released product, you are left scratching your head a bit.
    In the end the depth, quantity, and the ambitious nature of what VG takes much more time to produce and it just wasn't ready for prime time. I hope the "dig out" of the hole and do it fast, or they may never recover because perception and word of mouth can be a killer in this community. *cough* AO *cough*

    I quote this post as a great example of how to post.

    It is not praising Vanguard and I do expect everyone to love or even like the game. The ignorant, uniformed, and immature bashing of Vanguard is simply uncalled for. This will be my last post on these boards. I simply can not handle the ignorant crowd here. Many of the regular posters are simply too ignorant and immature to be taken seriously. It was entertaining for awhile , but now I'm just finding it annoying.

    Ashame you feel the game isn't worth fighting for . The strength of the community lays in it's ability to make objective points, but it seems most of this "immature" ranting is more like accurate perception of what the game is , will be, and has been ? I do not think the success or failure of Vanguard will be determined by what happens on this forum. I also think you grossly overrate the impact any immature ranting (either pro or con) actually has.



    Ultimately, the game will succeed or fail on its own merits (or lack thereof).



    It was a Generalized statement, Generalized? I  thought you were scolding the other poster for not wanting to fight for Vanguard any more?  If I misinterpreted,  my bad. he reflected the mood of the vangaurd community , sometimes I use peoples quotes in other ways then a direct . think tthat is why people think i'm flaminig them or trolling , I will label next time...

    who me ?

  • severiusseverius sacramento, CAMember UncommonPosts: 1,513
    Originally posted by Thamoris

    Originally posted by Viktaal

    Originally posted by Mars505



    Dude, I couldn't agree with you more, The core beta testers for vangaurd where fans, and they seemed to not want to take the time and actual beta test the game. When I arrived in the late beta I was profoundly shocked at how unploshied the newbie area where as well as the quests.



    Also with the VanFans at the spectrum constantly praising the game on the Sigil boards it is no wonder the game is in the current state it is now. To top that off with one of the worst community Cordinators that I've ever seen for a beta it was destined for distaster long before I arrived to test.



    When I listed the thinga that I felt need improvement I was relieved from testing and told to not come back, as well as the VanFans on the nmessage board constantly saying it was our fault that we couldn't get certain part of the game to function.

    It is a huge shame to cause I was definitly looking forward to this title , and this is what happenes when you let none objective fans beta test your title.  I was quite vocal throughout my testing period aswell. That is when I started to realized how ignorant and rabid many of the fanbois were. They refused to see any negatives or flaws in the game. That had to be the worst beta I have ever been in, and not just the game, but the damn testers. Well, they got what they deserved, a broken POS home in need of serious repairs. Karma my friend, karma



    I still fail to see how anyone can say this game was better than AO's release. I was in the alpha test and from my recollection it was a tad better than Vg's beta. Hell, I would say this game is on par with DnL's release even though the Vanbois would disagree. The only difference is that Sigil has a large backbone in SoE to help them out.



    You hit the nail on the head with the core testers. Either they were to busy farming/grinding or they just didn't have any experience.



     Look at Horizons, they were still trying to get the newbie quests fixed as of last year. That will be VG 2 years down the road if they manage to survive - (That is unless Sigil sells out to SoE, then I could see the game get polished a bit sooner) Sigil just doesn't have the funds to effectively complete this alpha game, and they will go down just like Horizons did unless Brad sells out. I can't see this game drawing in enough subs to keep Sigil in charge with enough of a staff to get it done. Sorry, but that is my opinion and my prediction.

    With that said, it looks like SoE has a little more influence than what the Vanbois wish to see. Just look at the double XP fiasco. That has SoE ala EQ2 written all over it.



    I played Horizons daily for 3 years ...up untill I started playing Vanguard beta...and you have no idea what you are talking about.

    Vanguard is NOWHERE NEAR the state Horizons was a month after launch...nothing even close...not at all...total complete lie.

    Since Vanguard has launched the performance has been increased by at least 30%. I play on an old machine ( AMD 3500, Nvid 6600, with 1gig of ram ) and average 25-30 fps on the high performance setting and 20-25 fps on the balanced settings. I have yet to encounter a single broke quest. There have been several massive updates ...including increased melee damage, class balancing and numerous tweaks to enhance game performance.

    Vanguard will not travel the same road as Horizons. Not even close. I have a guild of over 60 ..very active players and they are all having a great time. There are players all over the place.

    I think yall just hate SoE and will dog on anything they do. I think most of yall just found the game TOO HARD...and had your egos smashed when you couldn't ding a new level every hour.

    Vanguard will have 200k in subs within six months from launch..they will have over 400k a year from now. Mark my words..I'm in the game..I'm playing it...I see whats happening and in contact with ALOT of players in the game DAILY...and you couldn't be farther from the truth.

    Two main issues remain...disconects ( probably my 1 gig of ram) and chunk crossings remain pretty rough ( again..mostly due to my 1 gig of ram/ low end machine )

    Learn how to REALLY play a mmo....understand that you will ALWAYS have to upgrade you cpu to play the latest and greatest and then..only then..will you be able to graduate from carebear WoW and Lotr games. Know that all mmos that pust the limits of what can be done onlie will always start off a bit rough.

    Horizons was a game before its time...it will go down in history as the biggest disappointment as it truely has way more to offer than any other mmo in the past 3 years.

    Vanguard will live a long..long..healthy life online for the next 5-8 years...I'd bet my house on that.

    This is evidence of the quality of people that vanguard has attracted.  Notice the narcissism and holier than thou attitude.  If anyone actually thinks that Vanguard is a hard game they are only trying to inflate their own ego, there is nothing difficult about vanguard apart from the mass bugs and pathetic state that the game was released in.

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  • RekindleRekindle Moncton, NBMember UncommonPosts: 1,206

    This games survival is based on its ability to correct itself against the values of the mmo gaming market audience they are targeting.   I think this game tried to be too much to too many people and fell off the rails.  It may be a good game in a number of years -- who knows?  The fact their priority setting was this messed up and their content is this lacking is tell tale.

    But I don't care because I will not pay for a game that will be good when my character reaches level 20 or a game taht will be good after 6 months of patching.  Its so incrediably arrogant to expect a consumer to pay and play crap while they allocate some of the funds they extract from my wallet (but not all) to deliver.   I don't like this way of thinking, I don't support this way of thinking. The number 1 reason this game is failing (and IMHO it is failing) is because it places the expectation on the consumer to accept the game in its current form.

    I know they are working hard though.  The part that concerns is me is their apparant lack of priority setting and the continuning aura of arrogance that seems to linger near anything SOE.

  • anarchyartanarchyart north delta, BCMember Posts: 5,378
    Originally posted by Rekindle


    I watched this game for years hoping it would be the sucessor to EQ we all wanted it to be.   And in the beginning it was going to be I think.  Then they drove a wedge right down through the community with the SOE thing. Whichever side you're on you know that before the announcement things were a lot different with this game. Whether SOE was good or bad I think we can all agree the announcement polarized the community. Since that time the hype for this game has fed in on itself and taken the opportunity it once was and arsed it up royaly.
    Then the last few stages of beta came and they revamped system after system last minute.  Then at very last minute, a very buggy 17 gig game was released and called "production".  No one agreeed the game was ready, many of us in the beta community said it would be a very bad idea and that the game would get chewed up in the mmorpg gaming circles.
    With all this in mind they made a game had the potential to look decent on a computer manufactuered after 2005 and thousands of gamers realized they didnt have great systems anymore so couldn't play if they wanted to.
    The people who have made this game have made it more impossible for me, the "Core gamer" as they put it, than if I had pulled the internet connection out of the back of my computer.
    To be perfectly honest I'm back in Burning Crusade playing a blood elf pally and I dont follow the tribulations of the Vanguard community. I choose not to be one of the people that purchased this game at launch so  they can cash up a pay the beta fund. 
    I'm sorry but they had lots of opportunities to do things differently. Maybe they should have released two good continents at launch and focused resources on other areas like , i dunno, story line and quests.
    Many of us warned them and many of us called this.  I still hope that Vanguard is a good game in 2 years but now it has to dig itself out of a hole it dug itself into.  If this game plays anything like it did in the late stages of beta i would say this game isn't even in the same class as WoW (not tryign to troll here) but I've played them all (and I mean almost all) and WoW was the most expensive game to make, took the longest and is now the most polished game I have ever played online.  Funny how Blizzard seemed to embrace completely oppostie values to SoE and Sigil: quality, high performance, creative, artistic and FUN.

    Not sure when the last time you played was, but Vanguard has improved drastically since launch, but you are right. Vanguard is not in the same class even remotely as WoW, it's above it. WoW, since you brought the name up here, is a game on training wheels compared to Vanguard. I couldn't ever go back. Take care and have fun.

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  • FreddyNoNoseFreddyNoNose LosAngeles, CAMember Posts: 1,558
    So it has improved.  Have they added any fun yet or is it just more of the same old thing you see in other games like EQ1, EQ2, Wow?
  • AtriousAtrious Spring Lake, MIMember Posts: 49
    Originally posted by Viktaal 

      I was quite vocal throughout my testing period aswell. That is when I started to realized how ignorant and rabid many of the fanbois were. They refused to see any negatives or flaws in the game. That had to be the worst beta I have ever been in, and not just the game, but the damn testers. Well, they got what they deserved, a broken POS home in need of serious repairs. Karma my friend, karma



    I still fail to see how anyone can say this game was better than AO's release. I was in the alpha test and from my recollection it was a tad better than Vg's beta. Hell, I would say this game is on par with DnL's release even though the Vanbois would disagree. The only difference is that Sigil has a large backbone in SoE to help them out.



    You hit the nail on the head with the core testers. Either they were to busy farming/grinding or they just didn't have any experience.



     Look at Horizons, they were still trying to get the newbie quests fixed as of last year. That will be VG 2 years down the road if they manage to survive - (That is unless Sigil sells out to SoE, then I could see the game get polished a bit sooner) Sigil just doesn't have the funds to effectively complete this alpha game, and they will go down just like Horizons did unless Brad sells out. I can't see this game drawing in enough subs to keep Sigil in charge with enough of a staff to get it done. Sorry, but that is my opinion and my prediction.

    With that said, it looks like SoE has a little more influence than what the Vanbois wish to see. Just look at the double XP fiasco. That has SoE ala EQ2 written all over it.



    On Par with Dark And Light??? Thats retarded..... DNL didn't even haver quests, and more than half of DNL's Classes didn't work beyound lvl 10, only 3 of the 13 regions were open... for the supposed Largest MMO ever... At any rate. DnL was maybe 12% of what was promised at launch. And nothing was said of the fact, even 3 months later they stated the Game was as it should have been lol.

    At the state of Vanguard right now, i'd say about 80% of the content is in Game. I'll agree there are bugs, and some of the game needs some polish and flair. But to compare Vanguards Release with DnL, thats just ignorant, or are you a DnL fanbois still,............

  • pablo0713pablo0713 Granada Hills, CAMember Posts: 78
    *yawn* another I hate Vanguard thread.....



    Myself and plenty of people I know are having a blast in this game....



    SO....



    to each his own.....

    Lets Eat It!

  • xAlrythxxAlrythx BlackbuttMember Posts: 585
    Originally posted by severius

    Originally posted by Thamoris

    Originally posted by Viktaal

    Originally posted by Mars505



    Dude, I couldn't agree with you more, The core beta testers for vangaurd where fans, and they seemed to not want to take the time and actual beta test the game. When I arrived in the late beta I was profoundly shocked at how unploshied the newbie area where as well as the quests.



    Also with the VanFans at the spectrum constantly praising the game on the Sigil boards it is no wonder the game is in the current state it is now. To top that off with one of the worst community Cordinators that I've ever seen for a beta it was destined for distaster long before I arrived to test.



    When I listed the thinga that I felt need improvement I was relieved from testing and told to not come back, as well as the VanFans on the nmessage board constantly saying it was our fault that we couldn't get certain part of the game to function.

    It is a huge shame to cause I was definitly looking forward to this title , and this is what happenes when you let none objective fans beta test your title.  I was quite vocal throughout my testing period aswell. That is when I started to realized how ignorant and rabid many of the fanbois were. They refused to see any negatives or flaws in the game. That had to be the worst beta I have ever been in, and not just the game, but the damn testers. Well, they got what they deserved, a broken POS home in need of serious repairs. Karma my friend, karma



    I still fail to see how anyone can say this game was better than AO's release. I was in the alpha test and from my recollection it was a tad better than Vg's beta. Hell, I would say this game is on par with DnL's release even though the Vanbois would disagree. The only difference is that Sigil has a large backbone in SoE to help them out.



    You hit the nail on the head with the core testers. Either they were to busy farming/grinding or they just didn't have any experience.



     Look at Horizons, they were still trying to get the newbie quests fixed as of last year. That will be VG 2 years down the road if they manage to survive - (That is unless Sigil sells out to SoE, then I could see the game get polished a bit sooner) Sigil just doesn't have the funds to effectively complete this alpha game, and they will go down just like Horizons did unless Brad sells out. I can't see this game drawing in enough subs to keep Sigil in charge with enough of a staff to get it done. Sorry, but that is my opinion and my prediction.

    With that said, it looks like SoE has a little more influence than what the Vanbois wish to see. Just look at the double XP fiasco. That has SoE ala EQ2 written all over it.



    I played Horizons daily for 3 years ...up untill I started playing Vanguard beta...and you have no idea what you are talking about.

    Vanguard is NOWHERE NEAR the state Horizons was a month after launch...nothing even close...not at all...total complete lie.

    Since Vanguard has launched the performance has been increased by at least 30%. I play on an old machine ( AMD 3500, Nvid 6600, with 1gig of ram ) and average 25-30 fps on the high performance setting and 20-25 fps on the balanced settings. I have yet to encounter a single broke quest. There have been several massive updates ...including increased melee damage, class balancing and numerous tweaks to enhance game performance.

    Vanguard will not travel the same road as Horizons. Not even close. I have a guild of over 60 ..very active players and they are all having a great time. There are players all over the place.

    I think yall just hate SoE and will dog on anything they do. I think most of yall just found the game TOO HARD...and had your egos smashed when you couldn't ding a new level every hour.

    Vanguard will have 200k in subs within six months from launch..they will have over 400k a year from now. Mark my words..I'm in the game..I'm playing it...I see whats happening and in contact with ALOT of players in the game DAILY...and you couldn't be farther from the truth.

    Two main issues remain...disconects ( probably my 1 gig of ram) and chunk crossings remain pretty rough ( again..mostly due to my 1 gig of ram/ low end machine )

    Learn how to REALLY play a mmo....understand that you will ALWAYS have to upgrade you cpu to play the latest and greatest and then..only then..will you be able to graduate from carebear WoW and Lotr games. Know that all mmos that pust the limits of what can be done onlie will always start off a bit rough.

    Horizons was a game before its time...it will go down in history as the biggest disappointment as it truely has way more to offer than any other mmo in the past 3 years.

    Vanguard will live a long..long..healthy life online for the next 5-8 years...I'd bet my house on that.

    This is evidence of the quality of people that vanguard has attracted.  Notice the narcissism and holier than thou attitude.  If anyone actually thinks that Vanguard is a hard game they are only trying to inflate their own ego, there is nothing difficult about vanguard apart from the mass bugs and pathetic state that the game was released in.



    QFT, you couldn't be any more closer to the truth if you tried

    Don't you just love the posts that try and claim rediculous things like, VSoH is a challenge, VSoH is hard, VSoH has brought so much to mmorpg's, Thamoris' post was filled with more bullshit than a farm.

    Currently Playing: Everything but MMORPGs
    Cancelled: L2, FFXI, VSoH, LotRO, WAR, WoW
    Looking Forward To: SW:TOR

  • PanossianPanossian media, PAMember Posts: 94
    "" I played Horizons daily for 3 years ... ""





    Thats where I stopped reading bro , everything you have to say is null and void.

    ___________________________________
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  • KeushpuppyKeushpuppy Wenatchee, WAMember UncommonPosts: 126
    Originally posted by airhead

    @OP...... All very sad and depressing. Nobody wins when things like this happen. MMOs are sensitive to the population and player-morale, more so than any other type of game. First impressions are a big deal... and bad first impressions, (irregardless of the reason) are very hard to overcome.

      First impressions are the killer. Even though AC2 completly changed and became a good game you couldnt mention the name in a post with out people going bonkers and screaming how bad it was at release. The longer it takes them to fix it the less likely people will come back for a second try.
  • MrbloodworthMrbloodworth Newport News, VAMember Posts: 5,615
    Performance has been getting better, but its not quite where it should be, this is true.

    ----------
    "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me

    "No, your wrong.." - Random user #123

    "Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.

    How are you?" -Me

  • summitussummitus TimbuktuMember UncommonPosts: 1,414
    Gone back to Everquest 2 which is still the best ever Mmorpg.Vanguard for me ? well I wanted to enjoy it but with the amount of crashes and bugs and stuff I just got frustrated and when I did have a couple of stable periods of play there seemed just somthing missing could'nt really put my finger on it though.I hope in all honesty they do sort  it out though because it does have the potetial to be a great game . Anyway I've also now added Echoes of Faydwer on EQ and having a real good time in there ! Long live Everquest I say and thank god it has such a huge dedicated fanbase !
  • ViktaalViktaal Cudahy, WIMember Posts: 78
    I stand by my words Thamoris. Horizons still didn't have their newbie quests done, and were trying to get the bugs out of them for the 14 day trials, are you disagreeing? I was there too, I tried horizons just for the multiclassing. I stayed long enough to get my toon multiclassed to 45+ and 45 in crafting. Then I got bored and quit.

    Sorry to hurt your fragile ego, but like I stated earlier I cannot see VG getting enough subs to keep Brad in charge with a crew large enough to polish every aspect of this game. Hence, it would follow suite of horizons. The only saving grace you vanbois have will be SoE. Once they buyout Sigil they will have the resources to mend this game at a decent pace. Part of that is due to the fact of the upcoming releases. Sigil doesn't have enough manpower to polish this game before they get lost in the shuffle. Mark my words, SoE will own this game outright within a year.



    As for the comparision to DnL, VG was overhyped to the max aswell. What they delivered was far from the hype.



    So I would say that VG's launch had Horizons and DnL aspects to it.



    Now Thamoris, please explain why you think this game is hard? It isn't any harder than any other MMO out there.Sure you might have to kill 1000 mobs instead of 500 as you would in other mmo's, but to me that isn't HARD, it is a repetitive grind. As for you smashed my uber computer ego.. LOL you truly are a dolt. Really, I would love to hear why you think this game is so hard?



    Now I know why you are such a Vanboi. You played Horizons from release for 3+ years. No wonder why you think VG is the bomb. Compared to Horizons pen and paper D&D is the bomb. That's like upgrading from a yugo to a pinto. Not the greatest improvement but you were satisfied with alot less. You truly are a glutton for punishment.
  • InvidiousInvidious City, MNMember CommonPosts: 124
    Originally posted by Mars505

    Originally posted by Rekindle


    I watched this game for years hoping it would be the sucessor to EQ we all wanted it to be.   And in the beginning it was going to be I think.  Then they drove a wedge right down through the community with the SOE thing. Whichever side you're on you know that before the announcement things were a lot different with this game. Whether SOE was good or bad I think we can all agree the announcement polarized the community. Since that time the hype for this game has fed in on itself and taken the opportunity it once was and arsed it up royaly.
    Then the last few stages of beta came and they revamped system after system last minute.  Then at very last minute, a very buggy 17 gig game was released and called "production".  No one agreeed the game was ready, many of us in the beta community said it would be a very bad idea and that the game would get chewed up in the mmorpg gaming circles.
    With all this in mind they made a game had the potential to look decent on a computer manufactuered after 2005 and thousands of gamers realized they didnt have great systems anymore so couldn't play if they wanted to.
    The people who have made this game have made it more impossible for me, the "Core gamer" as they put it, than if I had pulled the internet connection out of the back of my computer.
    To be perfectly honest I'm back in Burning Crusade playing a blood elf pally and I dont follow the tribulations of the Vanguard community. I choose not to be one of the people that purchased this game at launch so  they can cash up a pay the beta fund. 
    I'm sorry but they had lots of opportunities to do things differently. Maybe they should have released two good continents at launch and focused resources on other areas like , i dunno, story line and quests.
    Many of us warned them and many of us called this.  I still hope that Vanguard is a good game in 2 years but now it has to dig itself out of a hole it dug itself into.  If this game plays anything like it did in the late stages of beta i would say this game isn't even in the same class as WoW (not tryign to troll here) but I've played them all (and I mean almost all) and WoW was the most expensive game to make, took the longest and is now the most polished game I have ever played online.  Funny how Blizzard seemed to embrace completely oppostie values to SoE and Sigil: quality, high performance, creative, artistic and FUN.
    Dude, I couldn't agree with you more, The core beta testers for vangaurd where fans, and they seemed to not want to take the time and actual beta test the game. When I arrived in the late beta I was profoundly shocked at how unploshied the newbie area where as well as the quests.



    Also with the VanFans at the spectrum constantly praising the game on the Sigil boards it is no wonder the game is in the current state it is now. To top that off with one of the worst community Cordinators that I've ever seen for a beta it was destined for distaster long before I arrived to test.



    When I listed the thinga that I felt need improvement I was relieved from testing and told to not come back, as well as the VanFans on the nmessage board constantly saying it was our fault that we couldn't get certain part of the game to function.

    It is a huge shame to cause I was definitly looking forward to this title , and this is what happenes when you let none objective fans beta test your title.

     

    The implication here is that it was feedback from fans of the game that prompted them to releae early. Huh? What's the point of saying that Sigil was mislead about how ready the game was for release when Brad himself has said he didn't think the game was where they wanted it to be? Yes, plenty of the beta people were jackasses but I don't recall there being anything resembling even a disorganizaed minority saying that the game's bugs, performance and content were finished. The asshats were the ones calling for insane death penalties and levelling curves and they were pretty much ignored. We have in game maps, quest markers, map markers, buybacks, corpse summoning, gear binding.. I could go on and on. The asshats who wanted EQ with a new engine never wanted that stuff and they persecuted anyone who did and that's what made the beta boards so ridiculous.

  • InvidiousInvidious City, MNMember CommonPosts: 124
    Originally posted by Viktaal

    Originally posted by Mars505



    Dude, I couldn't agree with you more, The core beta testers for vangaurd where fans, and they seemed to not want to take the time and actual beta test the game. When I arrived in the late beta I was profoundly shocked at how unploshied the newbie area where as well as the quests.



    Also with the VanFans at the spectrum constantly praising the game on the Sigil boards it is no wonder the game is in the current state it is now. To top that off with one of the worst community Cordinators that I've ever seen for a beta it was destined for distaster long before I arrived to test.



    When I listed the thinga that I felt need improvement I was relieved from testing and told to not come back, as well as the VanFans on the nmessage board constantly saying it was our fault that we couldn't get certain part of the game to function.

    It is a huge shame to cause I was definitly looking forward to this title , and this is what happenes when you let none objective fans beta test your title. I still fail to see how anyone can say this game was better than AO's release. I was in the alpha test and from my recollection it was a tad better than Vg's beta. Hell, I would say this game is on par with DnL's release even though the Vanbois would disagree. The only difference is that Sigil has a large backbone in SoE to help them out.



    You hit the nail on the head with the core testers. Either they were to busy farming/grinding or they just didn't have any experience.



     



    Goodness people Sigil didn't release the game unfinished because of faulty tester feedback. They KNEW it was unfinished. Brad's been pretty up front about that hasn't he?

    As for AO, a majority of players couldn't log in for the entire first month of release. You can't have been a part of that fiasco and honestly think VG's release comes close. First off, VG starts with over twice the number of initial subscribers. I can promise you that their graph at MMOCHART won't look like Anarchy Online's in it's first months.

  • ViktaalViktaal Cudahy, WIMember Posts: 78
    Originally posted by Panossian

    "" I played Horizons daily for 3 years ... ""





    Thats where I stopped reading bro , everything you have to say is null and void.

    Amazing isn't it? Thamoris is now the Vanboi of all Vanbois. I bet he was this way with Horizons aswell. Tell me Thamoris, did you defend Horizons like it was your real life child aswell?



    So, is it safe to assume, the most vocal of Vanbois are really Horizons refugees? That would explain, why they think VG runs great, love the grind, think the death penalty is "hardcore" and think VG is loaded with content. Not to mention they are willing to look past all of the glaring issues. Now I understand this fools ego problem.
  • ViktaalViktaal Cudahy, WIMember Posts: 78
    Originally posted by Invidious

    Originally posted by Viktaal

    Originally posted by Mars505



    Dude, I couldn't agree with you more, The core beta testers for vangaurd where fans, and they seemed to not want to take the time and actual beta test the game. When I arrived in the late beta I was profoundly shocked at how unploshied the newbie area where as well as the quests.



    Also with the VanFans at the spectrum constantly praising the game on the Sigil boards it is no wonder the game is in the current state it is now. To top that off with one of the worst community Cordinators that I've ever seen for a beta it was destined for distaster long before I arrived to test.



    When I listed the thinga that I felt need improvement I was relieved from testing and told to not come back, as well as the VanFans on the nmessage board constantly saying it was our fault that we couldn't get certain part of the game to function.

    It is a huge shame to cause I was definitly looking forward to this title , and this is what happenes when you let none objective fans beta test your title. I still fail to see how anyone can say this game was better than AO's release. I was in the alpha test and from my recollection it was a tad better than Vg's beta. Hell, I would say this game is on par with DnL's release even though the Vanbois would disagree. The only difference is that Sigil has a large backbone in SoE to help them out.



    You hit the nail on the head with the core testers. Either they were to busy farming/grinding or they just didn't have any experience.



     



    Goodness people Sigil didn't release the game unfinished because of faulty tester feedback. They KNEW it was unfinished. Brad's been pretty up front about that hasn't he?

    As for AO, a majority of players couldn't log in for the entire first month of release. You can't have been a part of that fiasco and honestly think VG's release comes close. First off, VG starts with over twice the number of initial subscribers. I can promise you that their graph at MMOCHART won't look like Anarchy Online's in it's first months.

     

    No, I quit testing that game before they let the public in. I wouldn't say it was all the testers fault either. Just like any other developer they don't listen to feedback. You can ship VG in that same carton my friend.

     

    As for AO, a majority of players couldn't log in for the entire first month of release.

    It seems to me VG had VERY SIMILAR ISSUES, no?

  • InvidiousInvidious City, MNMember CommonPosts: 124
    Originally posted by Viktaal

    Originally posted by Panossian

    "" I played Horizons daily for 3 years ... ""





    Thats where I stopped reading bro , everything you have to say is null and void.

    Amazing isn't it? Thamoris is now the Vanboi of all Vanbois. I bet he was this way with Horizons aswell. Tell me Thamoris, did you defend Horizons like it was your real life child aswell?



    So, is it safe to assume, the most vocal of Vanbois are really Horizons refugees? That would explain, why they think VG runs great, love the grind, think the death penalty is "hardcore" and think VG is loaded with content. Not to mention they are willing to look past all of the glaring issues. Now I understand this fools ego problem.

     

    Well, it is loaded with content. The death penatly certainly isn't hardcore. It's quite forgiving and a nice balance. But what does it mean to "look past" the issues? Does that mean denying the issues exist? Apparently what it means is that despite them, some people still have fun. What's REALLY interesting is the time some people invest in numerous posts dedicated to convincing other people why they SHOULDN'T be having fun. A VG player who enjoys VG is nowhere near as strange as a VG-hating vagrant who checks in every day to argue about just why he doesn't like something for the 100th time. From a clinical perspective, the psychology there is pretty fascinating.

  • CymdaiCymdai Raleigh, NCMember UncommonPosts: 1,041
    One thing a lot of folks are failing to realize is that Sigil is going to have even more difficulty down the road then they are now.



    Currently, there appears to be a lot of problems for people using Dual Core setups. I have 2 gigs of Dual Core DDR-2 ram, and performance is very...unpredictable, to say the least.



    Considering Quad-Core is due out (supposedly) by Q2, and rumors of Octocore (courtesy of pcstats.com newsletter) by the year's end, it just seems to me there's going to be more problems as the year progresses, not less.



    If they haven't even addressed performance issues successfully on older hardware...I fear the worst for the problems they''ll encounter once more powerful, and complex technological issues arise.

    Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...

  • InvidiousInvidious City, MNMember CommonPosts: 124
    Originally posted by Viktaal

    Originally posted by Invidious

    Originally posted by Viktaal

    Originally posted by Mars505



    Dude, I couldn't agree with you more, The core beta testers for vangaurd where fans, and they seemed to not want to take the time and actual beta test the game. When I arrived in the late beta I was profoundly shocked at how unploshied the newbie area where as well as the quests.



    Also with the VanFans at the spectrum constantly praising the game on the Sigil boards it is no wonder the game is in the current state it is now. To top that off with one of the worst community Cordinators that I've ever seen for a beta it was destined for distaster long before I arrived to test.



    When I listed the thinga that I felt need improvement I was relieved from testing and told to not come back, as well as the VanFans on the nmessage board constantly saying it was our fault that we couldn't get certain part of the game to function.

    It is a huge shame to cause I was definitly looking forward to this title , and this is what happenes when you let none objective fans beta test your title. I still fail to see how anyone can say this game was better than AO's release. I was in the alpha test and from my recollection it was a tad better than Vg's beta. Hell, I would say this game is on par with DnL's release even though the Vanbois would disagree. The only difference is that Sigil has a large backbone in SoE to help them out.



    You hit the nail on the head with the core testers. Either they were to busy farming/grinding or they just didn't have any experience.



     



    Goodness people Sigil didn't release the game unfinished because of faulty tester feedback. They KNEW it was unfinished. Brad's been pretty up front about that hasn't he?

    As for AO, a majority of players couldn't log in for the entire first month of release. You can't have been a part of that fiasco and honestly think VG's release comes close. First off, VG starts with over twice the number of initial subscribers. I can promise you that their graph at MMOCHART won't look like Anarchy Online's in it's first months.

     

    No, I quit testing that game before they let the public in. I wouldn't say it was all the testers fault either. Just like any other developer they don't listen to feedback. You can ship VG in that same carton my friend.

     

    As for AO, a majority of players couldn't log in for the entire first month of release.

    It seems to me VG had VERY SIMILAR ISSUES, no?


    Um, no. Not being able to log in? Not a feature of the VG launch. Hitching issues, hefty system reqs and bugs sure but the game can be played.  Server stability has been about average for MMO launches. Also no widespread account screw ups as in AO where people couldn't even set one up. You people can't have experienced it. It's called the worst launch in MMO history for a reason.
  • InvidiousInvidious City, MNMember CommonPosts: 124
    Originally posted by Cymdai

    One thing a lot of folks are failing to realize is that Sigil is going to have even more difficulty down the road then they are now.



    Currently, there appears to be a lot of problems for people using Dual Core setups. I have 2 gigs of Dual Core DDR-2 ram, and performance is very...unpredictable, to say the least.



    Considering Quad-Core is due out (supposedly) by Q2, and rumors of Octocore (courtesy of pcstats.com newsletter) by the year's end, it just seems to me there's going to be more problems as the year progresses, not less.



    If they haven't even addressed performance issues successfully on older hardware...I fear the worst for the problems they''ll encounter once more powerful, and complex technological issues arise.

     

    Its their biggest problem by far. People who wouldn't mind trying the game and get hit with 5fps ain't gonna stick around.

  • BalisidarBalisidar Superior, WIMember Posts: 164
    Originally posted by Cymdai

    One thing a lot of folks are failing to realize is that Sigil is going to have even more difficulty down the road then they are now.



    Currently, there appears to be a lot of problems for people using Dual Core setups. I have 2 gigs of Dual Core DDR-2 ram, and performance is very...unpredictable, to say the least.



    Considering Quad-Core is due out (supposedly) by Q2, and rumors of Octocore (courtesy of pcstats.com newsletter) by the year's end, it just seems to me there's going to be more problems as the year progresses, not less.



    If they haven't even addressed performance issues successfully on older hardware...I fear the worst for the problems they''ll encounter once more powerful, and complex technological issues arise.
    But, but, but....all this will be fixed!  After all....it's only in BETA!

    Never be afraid of choices. More choices are always good things.

  • ViktaalViktaal Cudahy, WIMember Posts: 78
    Originally posted by Invidious

    Originally posted by Viktaal

    Originally posted by Panossian

    "" I played Horizons daily for 3 years ... ""





    Thats where I stopped reading bro , everything you have to say is null and void.

    Amazing isn't it? Thamoris is now the Vanboi of all Vanbois. I bet he was this way with Horizons aswell. Tell me Thamoris, did you defend Horizons like it was your real life child aswell?



    So, is it safe to assume, the most vocal of Vanbois are really Horizons refugees? That would explain, why they think VG runs great, love the grind, think the death penalty is "hardcore" and think VG is loaded with content. Not to mention they are willing to look past all of the glaring issues. Now I understand this fools ego problem.

     

    Well, it is loaded with content. The death penatly certainly isn't hardcore. It's quite forgiving and a nice balance. But what does it mean to "look past" the issues? Does that mean denying the issues exist? Apparently what it means is that despite them, some people still have fun. What's REALLY interesting is the time some people invest in numerous posts dedicated to convincing other people why they SHOULDN'T be having fun. A VG player who enjoys VG is nowhere near as strange as a VG-hating vagrant who checks in every day to argue about just why he doesn't like something for the 100th time. From a clinical perspective, the psychology there is pretty fascinating.

    LOL, I can assure you I am quite fit mentally, physically and well off. I would also say from a clinical perspective, anyone who would defend a MMO like it is their newborn child could use a few doses.
  • CymdaiCymdai Raleigh, NCMember UncommonPosts: 1,041
    Originally posted by Invidious

    Originally posted by Viktaal

    Originally posted by Invidious

    Originally posted by Viktaal

    Originally posted by Mars505



    Dude, I couldn't agree with you more, The core beta testers for vangaurd where fans, and they seemed to not want to take the time and actual beta test the game. When I arrived in the late beta I was profoundly shocked at how unploshied the newbie area where as well as the quests.



    Also with the VanFans at the spectrum constantly praising the game on the Sigil boards it is no wonder the game is in the current state it is now. To top that off with one of the worst community Cordinators that I've ever seen for a beta it was destined for distaster long before I arrived to test.



    When I listed the thinga that I felt need improvement I was relieved from testing and told to not come back, as well as the VanFans on the nmessage board constantly saying it was our fault that we couldn't get certain part of the game to function.

    It is a huge shame to cause I was definitly looking forward to this title , and this is what happenes when you let none objective fans beta test your title. I still fail to see how anyone can say this game was better than AO's release. I was in the alpha test and from my recollection it was a tad better than Vg's beta. Hell, I would say this game is on par with DnL's release even though the Vanbois would disagree. The only difference is that Sigil has a large backbone in SoE to help them out.



    You hit the nail on the head with the core testers. Either they were to busy farming/grinding or they just didn't have any experience.



     



    Goodness people Sigil didn't release the game unfinished because of faulty tester feedback. They KNEW it was unfinished. Brad's been pretty up front about that hasn't he?

    As for AO, a majority of players couldn't log in for the entire first month of release. You can't have been a part of that fiasco and honestly think VG's release comes close. First off, VG starts with over twice the number of initial subscribers. I can promise you that their graph at MMOCHART won't look like Anarchy Online's in it's first months.

     

    No, I quit testing that game before they let the public in. I wouldn't say it was all the testers fault either. Just like any other developer they don't listen to feedback. You can ship VG in that same carton my friend.

     

    As for AO, a majority of players couldn't log in for the entire first month of release.

    It seems to me VG had VERY SIMILAR ISSUES, no?


    Um, no. Not being able to log in? Not a feature of the VG launch. Hitching issues and bug sure but the game can be played.  Server stability has been about average for MMO launches. Also no widespread account screw ups as in AO where people couldn't even set one up. You people can't have experienced it. It's called the worst launch in MMO history for a reason. That goes to Mourning. Or Asheron's Call 2.



    AO had it's problems, and it's still got tons of them. However, if I'm not mistaken (and I might be!), AO also had 1/8 of the budget an a significantly smaller team than VG.



    I don't think it's fair to blame pioneers of the genre, with limited resources and experience for that horrendous launch. Not unless you'll blame VG for being equally awful, given their experience with MMO's, their financial backing, and dev team.

    Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...

  • Mars505Mars505 Mars, AKMember Posts: 623
    Originally posted by Invidious

    Originally posted by Mars505

    Originally posted by Rekindle


    I watched this game for years hoping it would be the sucessor to EQ we all wanted it to be.   And in the beginning it was going to be I think.  Then they drove a wedge right down through the community with the SOE thing. Whichever side you're on you know that before the announcement things were a lot different with this game. Whether SOE was good or bad I think we can all agree the announcement polarized the community. Since that time the hype for this game has fed in on itself and taken the opportunity it once was and arsed it up royaly.
    Then the last few stages of beta came and they revamped system after system last minute.  Then at very last minute, a very buggy 17 gig game was released and called "production".  No one agreeed the game was ready, many of us in the beta community said it would be a very bad idea and that the game would get chewed up in the mmorpg gaming circles.
    With all this in mind they made a game had the potential to look decent on a computer manufactuered after 2005 and thousands of gamers realized they didnt have great systems anymore so couldn't play if they wanted to.
    The people who have made this game have made it more impossible for me, the "Core gamer" as they put it, than if I had pulled the internet connection out of the back of my computer.
    To be perfectly honest I'm back in Burning Crusade playing a blood elf pally and I dont follow the tribulations of the Vanguard community. I choose not to be one of the people that purchased this game at launch so  they can cash up a pay the beta fund. 
    I'm sorry but they had lots of opportunities to do things differently. Maybe they should have released two good continents at launch and focused resources on other areas like , i dunno, story line and quests.
    Many of us warned them and many of us called this.  I still hope that Vanguard is a good game in 2 years but now it has to dig itself out of a hole it dug itself into.  If this game plays anything like it did in the late stages of beta i would say this game isn't even in the same class as WoW (not tryign to troll here) but I've played them all (and I mean almost all) and WoW was the most expensive game to make, took the longest and is now the most polished game I have ever played online.  Funny how Blizzard seemed to embrace completely oppostie values to SoE and Sigil: quality, high performance, creative, artistic and FUN.
    Dude, I couldn't agree with you more, The core beta testers for vangaurd where fans, and they seemed to not want to take the time and actual beta test the game. When I arrived in the late beta I was profoundly shocked at how unploshied the newbie area where as well as the quests.



    Also with the VanFans at the spectrum constantly praising the game on the Sigil boards it is no wonder the game is in the current state it is now. To top that off with one of the worst community Cordinators that I've ever seen for a beta it was destined for distaster long before I arrived to test.



    When I listed the thinga that I felt need improvement I was relieved from testing and told to not come back, as well as the VanFans on the nmessage board constantly saying it was our fault that we couldn't get certain part of the game to function.

    It is a huge shame to cause I was definitly looking forward to this title , and this is what happenes when you let none objective fans beta test your title.

     

    The implication here is that it was feedback from fans of the game that prompted them to releae early. Huh? What's the point of saying that Sigil was mislead about how ready the game was for release when Brad himself has said he didn't think the game was where they wanted it to be? Yes, plenty of the beta people were jackasses but I don't recall there being anything resembling even a disorganizaed minority saying that the game's bugs, performance and content were finished. The asshats were the ones calling for insane death penalties and levelling curves and they were pretty much ignored. We have in game maps, quest markers, map markers, buybacks, corpse summoning, gear binding.. I could go on and on. The asshats who wanted EQ with a new engine never wanted that stuff and they persecuted anyone who did and that's what made the beta boards so ridiculous.

    From past Experience, it is better to have people who have very little clue on what a game is about, A lot of these testers where their souly to play the game. Almost 80% of issues posted on the Vanboards that was negativrly objective was immediately considered wow troll.

    who me ?

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