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World of Warcraft: Casual Play: WoW Dishes Out Casual Epics

StraddenStradden Managing EditorHalifax, NSPosts: 6,696Member

Our chronic casual gamer Steve Wilson returns this week with his weekly column. This time around, he's talking about World of Warcraft and the bility of casual players to gain epic gear.

I'm often grateful that there's one game out there that seems to be catering more frequently to the casual playstyle with every patch. World of Warcraft's latest patch once again shows that if they don't love the casual player then they are at least doing everything in their power to keep us around. Specifically, the changes to the battlegrounds have done more to put end level gear in the hands of the casual player than any other single event to date. Even with my paltry dozen hours a week (give or take a few hours) of play time I have managed to acquire the end level PvP weapon. And that's doing nothing more than something I already loved, fighting in the battlegrounds (at an hour a session as well).

You can read the whole column here

Cheers,
Jon Wood
Managing Editor
MMORPG.com

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Comments

  • Major_SkillzMajor_Skillz Norcross, GAPosts: 84Member
    I have no problems with the changes myself.
  • VinadilVinadil cola, SCPosts: 42Member

    The patch was by far one of the best they have released... getting close to what the system SHOULD have been like in the beginning.  Finally WoW is waking up to the fact that not everyone loves 40-man instances that require hours upon hours of work for months-on-end to finish.

    To me it is not even about the time involved.  I have a bit more time than the OP here to invest, and I could run instances to get gear... but who wants to do that?  (Well obviously quite a few people... but not many in my guild)  This is a PERFECT solution for guilds like mine that are mostly PvP oriented and have a wide variety of players in them.  We have some extremely hardcore guys (10-16 hours a day) and some very casual folks (10-16 hours a month).  Now we can ALL participate together in an activity that we enjoy (BGs and such) and everyone gets the same benefit from it.  Sure the guys in green gear are not doing much more than harrassing the enemy, but who cares... its about community as much as accomplishment.  And, those greenies are becoming purply much faster than ever possible before with the new system.

    My only beef so far is that it seems we have to wait until 70 for the next set of PvP rewards... don't know why Blizz thinks we need to spend 10 more levels of instances and grinding before we can use honor points for gear...

  • AverkiAverki Chicago, ILPosts: 4Member
    The only problem with the changes, and the rest of the upcoming content is that it completely devalues all of the time that players sunk into 40 man instance grinding, and the old pvp system.  Other games that have made changes this sweeping have at least given out crappy "veteran" rewards as status symbols of all the lost time....
  • MillaMeraniMillaMerani DunakesziPosts: 9Member
    I don't PvP so where are my casual epics?  One might say it is not real PvP at all, rather a massive honor farming fest, but still...
  • VinadilVinadil cola, SCPosts: 42Member

    Yea... I have heard the same... and in a way I felt that impact too.  I am in a mix of T1/2 gear, and now I see folks getting gear comparable or better in a matter of weeks... but all in all it makes the game more fun.  Our guild rarely ran BGs before this because the honor was meaningless and the people we played were idiots.  Winning every map every time because the opponents have no gear just stops being fun after a while.  And, since there was about ZERO motivation for the raiding crew to PvP they never stepped foot into the BGs.

    Now, though, you have many geared out guilds participating in the action, and even the Puggers are getting better gear, and it makes for an all-around more enjoyable experience.  The more steps they get to making the playing field more equal, the more fun their game will become.  I think Blizz is finally learning that lesson.

  • VinadilVinadil cola, SCPosts: 42Member
    Originally posted by MillaMerani

    I don't PvP so where are my casual epics?  One might say it is not real PvP at all, rather a massive honor farming fest, but still...

    There is no part of WoW that does not require farming... so yea that should be nothing new to you.  The issue here is what you have to DO while putting in your time.  For those whose brain's go numb and eyes bleed when they see the same instance for the 20th time... but who don't mind running PvP instances (as they are at least a TOUCH different game to game), well this allows a more palletable grind.

     

    I don't know if there is a way to remove WORK from REWARD, even in a game... and honestly I don't know if I would want to play such a game anyway.  The important part is making the "work" side enjoyable enough to do and making the "reward" side worth the investment.

  • MillaMeraniMillaMerani DunakesziPosts: 9Member
    Originally posted by Vinadil

    Originally posted by MillaMerani

    I don't PvP so where are my casual epics?  One might say it is not real PvP at all, rather a massive honor farming fest, but still...

    There is no part of WoW that does not require farming... so yea that should be nothing new to you.  The issue here is what you have to DO while putting in your time.  For those whose brain's go numb and eyes bleed when they see the same instance for the 20th time... but who don't mind running PvP instances (as they are at least a TOUCH different game to game), well this allows a more palletable grind.

     

    I don't know if there is a way to remove WORK from REWARD, even in a game... and honestly I don't know if I would want to play such a game anyway.  The important part is making the "work" side enjoyable enough to do and making the "reward" side worth the investment.



    WORK  | GRIND =/= Fun

    Many people justify the need for hard work to get an epic item by saying "EPIC means EPIC effort".

    I say that's bullshit. EPIC effort should mean EPIC FUN! EPIC should be EPIC difficulty, but difficulty =/= grinding. Grinding is a simple time sink that the companies put into their games to keep you subscribed. Designing something that is based on grinding for honor/reputation/items does not require creativity.

    Ok, they designed an armor upgrade quest. It could have been fun if the results were worthy of the effort, but the upgraded stats are just slightly better than those of the old items.

    I guess Blizzard is aware of the issue because - as far as I know (I may be wrong, I only say what a guildmate and friend told me about his experience in TBC beta) - some of the Burning Crusade quest items/drops are actually better than T2 items so player like me who don't like the grinding/pvp'ing aspect of the game (I'm a questing freak so bear with me) will have a chance to catch up with the raiding guys.

    Btw, I agree this was a positive patch.  The fact that it does not offer anything to non-PVP'ers does not detract from its positive effects.

    Too bad, MMORPG's have not evolved to the point yet where dynamic content dominates the max level end-game, offering fun for all playstyles. Hell, people may argue that it is something that is nearly impossible to achieve, but the same could have been said about the MMO's of today just one decade ago.

  • BalmerBalmer Atlanta, GAPosts: 8Member
    Originally posted by MillaMerani

    Originally posted by Vinadil

    Originally posted by MillaMerani

    I don't PvP so where are my casual epics?  One might say it is not real PvP at all, rather a massive honor farming fest, but still...

    There is no part of WoW that does not require farming... so yea that should be nothing new to you.  The issue here is what you have to DO while putting in your time.  For those whose brain's go numb and eyes bleed when they see the same instance for the 20th time... but who don't mind running PvP instances (as they are at least a TOUCH different game to game), well this allows a more palletable grind.

     

    I don't know if there is a way to remove WORK from REWARD, even in a game... and honestly I don't know if I would want to play such a game anyway.  The important part is making the "work" side enjoyable enough to do and making the "reward" side worth the investment.



    WORK  | GRIND =/= Fun

    Many people justify the need for hard work to get an epic item by saying "EPIC means EPIC effort".

    I say that's bullshit. EPIC effort should mean EPIC FUN! EPIC should be EPIC difficulty, but difficulty =/= grinding. Grinding is a simple time sink that the companies put into their games to keep you subscribed. Designing something that is based on grinding for honor/reputation/items does not require creativity.

    Ok, they designed an armor upgrade quest. It could have been fun if the results were worthy of the effort, but the upgraded stats are just slightly better than those of the old items.

    I guess Blizzard is aware of the issue because - as far as I know (I may be wrong, I only say what a guildmate and friend told me about his experience in TBC beta) - some of the Burning Crusade quest items/drops are actually better than T2 items so player like me who don't like the grinding/pvp'ing aspect of the game (I'm a questing freak so bear with me) will have a chance to catch up with the raiding guys.

    Btw, I agree this was a positive patch.  The fact that it does not offer anything to non-PVP'ers does not detract from its positive effects.

    Too bad, MMORPG's have not evolved to the point yet where dynamic content dominates the max level end-game, offering fun for all playstyles. Hell, people may argue that it is something that is nearly impossible to achieve, but the same could have been said about the MMO's of today just one decade ago.



    It's posts like this that make me want to punch babies. 

    This kind of move by Blizzard does nothing but degrade the people who put in actual effort to attain the necessary faction to have earned epic rewards. 

    This casual vs. raider is a tired argument and ultimately, the direction of Blizzard currently will drive away hardcores because the poor, whiney casuals who think they're ENTITLED to the same rewards as those players who put in more effort, more hours, and undoubtedly more skill (read: have more experience) demand Blizzard cater to them exclusively. 

    You want a casual game, go play phucking Sim City and GTFO of my MMO. I'm trying to actually achieve something...unlike you.

     

  • jrgambitjrgambit Calgary, ABPosts: 157Member
    Originally posted by Balmer




    It's posts like this that make me want to punch babies. 
    This kind of move by Blizzard does nothing but degrade the people who put in actual effort to attain the necessary faction to have earned epic rewards. 
    This casual vs. raider is a tired argument and ultimately, the direction of Blizzard currently will drive away hardcores because the poor, whiney casuals who think they're ENTITLED to the same rewards as those players who put in more effort, more hours, and undoubtedly more skill (read: have more experience) demand Blizzard cater to them exclusively. 
    You want a casual game, go play phucking Sim City and GTFO of my MMO. I'm trying to actually achieve something...unlike you.
     
    Why dont you go play some asian grindfest and let the NON-RAIDERS (yes there is a thing as non-raiders, they can be hardcore or casual gamers too by the way) advance their characters.

    --------------------
    SWG - Killed by $OE
    WOW - Retired
    Playing WAR

  • PaksPaks No Where, OHPosts: 263Member
    The initial change to how honor and items were earned in BGs was fine but the hotfix that reduced the honor you could get was a joke.  Getting honor IMO is more of a grind now then it ever was.  Couple that with the leeching that goes on in BGs (even when the rank system was still in) and the entire process ends up being broken.  (And seriously, how many of the players that reached the top tiers did it legitimately and didn't leech?)



    The epics earned under the new system will be obsolete once TBC hits so the hotfix was not necessary, IMO.  They should have focused on fixing the problems with the BGs and the bugs the recent patch introduced.



    Blizzard has the right idea but their implementation and subsequent changes were most assuredly flawed.
  • achesomaachesoma Portland, ORPosts: 1,000Member Uncommon
    lol there is still nothing casual about the new honor system.  hate to break it to you guys but if you plan on getting full HWL/GM set it will take you about a year, if you are truly a "casual player."  Not to meantion, in about 12 days it will no longer be end-game gear.  Like I said a million times before, there is no such thing as a casual MMO player. 

    image

  • Parsifal57Parsifal57 Hampton, GAPosts: 267Member
    Originally posted by MillaMerani

    I don't PvP so where are my casual epics?  One might say it is not real PvP at all, rather a massive honor farming fest, but still...
    Likewise I don't PvP either, Blizzard as usual don't understand the problem and can't or more likely won't put the effort into a reasonable method for casual players who don't PvP and cant attend raids on any sort of regular basis. There have been numerous suggestions as to how this could be achieved but Blizz in their ivory tower seem unable to comprehend any of the MANY real issues with the game that currently exist and this attitude WILL hurt them badly in the end.



    Regardling the Original post the current method of allocating casual epics via PvP is VERY DEFINITELY NOT A WIN FOR EVERYONE. If fact most people problem loose out because of this change because,



        1. People have worked for PvP epics in the past feel cheated (They did have to put too much time in for their rewards but the current         method is way too easy (A Blinding example of Blizzards overcorrection policies which have been all to apparent in the last 2 years).



        2. Raiders see a lot of the work they put into running instance like lab rats waster (rightly or wrongly)



        3. 'Casuals' , I use this work loosely, get rewards far too easily for too little input in the PvP arena and do not feel like they have achieved anything and push even harder to make good equipment available easier in the PvE side which devalues the game for everyone.



        4. True Casuals (People who do not PvP and attend raids rarely), feel isolated and ignored by Blizzard who seem intent on pushing everyone to PvP.



        The solution for Casual Epics for everyone would have been to have quest chains that take a specific amount of real  elapsed time to complete with cooldowns between key steps of the quest chain, ideally they should not require items that can only be obtained via raids and should ideally need a max of 5 man group to complete. The time for the casual quest chains needs to be set so that raiders and PvP'rs will always achieve their items before casuals on the quest chains (just to stop all the childish complaints) but at least then there is a method for people to obtain better equipment to grow their characters rather than the rut that a lot of people find themselves in.





        I know i'm dreaming because Blizzard will never actually sit back and think about what is right to implement with their current team because they are too arrogant and in some cases too lazy to see better approaches. There are many things that could be done to enhance the game , such as armor customization, better tradeskill support, housing (guild and Personal) better quest chains, much more land mass etc etc, but it will take a large drop in population for some of these things to become reality and with the current flock of sheep mentality thats unlikely to happen soon.



        I know I will be moving on this year to AoC or CoS or WAR, whichever one plays the best, i hope all three games will succeed so that that stagnating World in WoW gets a kick in the pants to revitalize it (BC is just going to add to the problems not solve them).



    /end rant
  • VinadilVinadil cola, SCPosts: 42Member

    I wonder what game you can name that gives an EPIC reward for anything less than an EPIC time commiment?

    Take... Football.  What is the time commitment to win the SuperBowl?  Heck, what is the time commitment to win a High School championship... or even one GAME?

    Basketball, Soccer, Baseball... yea just about any other game that is Multi-player is the same story.

    Even games like chess require a large time commitment in order to achieve any sort of good victory or skill.  And some might consider playing chess a "grind", I mean you do just about the SAME THING every time you play right?

    The term "grind" should not be defined by the task alone, but by a measure of a) How enjoyable the task is, b) How MUCH of the task you have to do to achieve the reward, and c) The reward being significant enough.

    So, A + B = C means that I am not experiencing a grind.  That means I would be willing to do an UNenjoyable task for a SHORT period of time to obtain a GOOD result, or a semi-enjoyable task for a longer period of time to obtain the same result.  But, I would NOT be willing to do an unenjoyable task for a long period of time for said result.

    If you are looking for some story-book ending where a hardy group of adventurers go out and slay the dragon in a 1 in a million fight... then I can suggest LOTS of good books to read, perhaps even some singly player games that might work for you... but there has not been ONE mmo that has done this, and I don't even know if it fits the genre.  If a game DID attempt it, then by default 1 million people would try the encounter and only ONE would succeed... giving them the epic story and the rest the natural defeat.  It is just not so EPIC if everyone can do it every time without any work.

  • PsycoPandaPsycoPanda Texas, TXPosts: 15Member
    Are they going to release new pvp gear for level 70's when the expansion hits?  If they don't then nothing will have changed.  You'll still be running around in in adequate gear while the guy who farms Kharazan and Mount Hyjal four times a week blows you straight to hell.
  • PhaeloPhaelo unitedstates, MIPosts: 7Member

    These changes make me sick. Getting a full set of high warlord or grand martial gear+weps used to mean you accomplished something, now it is meaningless. Same goes for the pvp mounts. you used to have to grind rep with a faction to exalted to be able to ride cross faction mounts, now everyone has a frickin kitty kat ooo so pretty! shiny pixels!!!! what does a casual need this stuff for anyway? so you can 'stand up' to a 'hard core' player in pvp? you lack the skill he does so your going to lose regardless of gear, they can afford to use consumables just to put you in your place, why does it matter getting smoked when you only play 2 hours a day anyway? casuals are a waste of server resources and BG slots. a hardcore player will allways be better than a casual no matter what, same as their will allways be casuals whining about how they can't get XXX but XXX can.

    <-- 'casual'

    <-- different types of 'hardcore'

    <-- me loling@ casuals think they ever be on 'par' with 'hardcore' players

  • vajurasvajuras Austin, TXPosts: 2,860Member
    Yeah very smart move on Blizzard's part. I quit the game like many others because I just dindt have time to raid and I couldnt earn gear from pvp (I had already gotten my epic weapon from AV). now I'm seriously considering returning to the game cause my friends all seem very happy witht he new status quo
  • vajurasvajuras Austin, TXPosts: 2,860Member
    Originally posted by Phaelo


    These changes make me sick. Getting a full set of high warlord or grand martial gear+weps used to mean you accomplished something, now it is meaningless. Same goes for the pvp mounts. you used to have to grind rep with a faction to exalted to be able to ride cross faction mounts, now everyone has a frickin kitty kat ooo so pretty! shiny pixels!!!! what does a casual need this stuff for anyway? so you can 'stand up' to a 'hard core' player in pvp? you lack the skill he does so your going to lose regardless of gear, they can afford to use consumables just to put you in your place, why does it matter getting smoked when you only play 2 hours a day anyway? casuals are a waste of server resources and BG slots. a hardcore player will allways be better than a casual no matter what, same as their will allways be casuals whining about how they can't get XXX but XXX can.
    <-- 'casual'

    <-- different types of 'hardcore'

    <-- me loling@ casuals think they ever be on 'par' with 'hardcore' players

     

    lol high warlord was a joke to many of us. High warlord rarely ever got respect on my pvp server. They were just nerds that had time to play 24/7. It didnt mean they had true skill. All they did was leech rep/honor from those of us that was really putting in hard work to win. there was this one player who ev1 knew they just went afk in every battleground. But because he was on 24/7 he still got high warlord even though most any player could kill him in a fair fight lol. if you think I'm lying just go to Mal'ganis realm forums and ask about Barlow lol. They had entire threads dedciated to this guy with documented evidence (screenshots) such as he never killed anyone, etc. I'm sure every realm had a 'fake' high warlord just like my old one

    Not saying all high warlords blow but the old system was pretty flawed. If they want to really reward skill then I think the upcoming system in Burning Crusade Arena is the way to go. You should get credit for actual victories with small 2-5 man teams in the arena

  • mindmeldmindmeld StockholmPosts: 226Member
    The new settings for bg and pvp is pure gold for me before i didnt even venture to bg but now im prob gonna spend some cash on the expansion and start play again though i will aim for casual to middle or something about..





    Prob gonna switch to conan when that get out but this will be fun for a while.

    -Semper ubi sub ubi!
    always wear underwear

  • JackDonkeyJackDonkey _, MNPosts: 383Member
    i went from blue to purple with 3 piece transcendance in 14 ZG, 1 AQ20, 15 MC's/Onyxia, and 6 BWL's that only made it to firemaw, that's just under 200 hours of raiding.  What about time to farm consumables? the only consumables I used were DM booze, so one tribute run held me over for a couple weeks, so that's what another 15 hours of tribute runs in that time.  Some priest I bought, then got in my first ZG raid like 4 days later, didn't know anyone on the server.



    What is the current honor/hour now? 600? so 129,000 honor in the time it took me to get all purpled up in raiding. 215,000 honor if you're getting 1000 honor/hour.



    Just imagine if raids were cross realm and had ques like battlegrounds, with an addition of a class limit, like needing at least 3 tanks and X amout of healers, and at least one of each other class or something.  The epics would be just as easy to get.  Just pretend the most perfect system is in place to work around the weekly reset system.  With all the zones they have now you could run one just about every night.  People would eventually learn the boss fights just like most people eventually learn english after being born, or learn to use the toilet, it'll happen and once it does the epics will flow.  Lets say MC was this way from the start I bet every single person in this game that's been lvl 60 for 2 months would think of that place like SUnken Temple, like not even give boss difficulty a second thought, I mean it might have taken a while for some of the tards to learn, but what's it been like 1.5 years since MC came out.



    I got up to 19k honor with my blue warrior and gave up, I had already cancelled my account cause I liked my one button masher macros (my priest and warlock still have 51 unused talent points cause they're only fun with macros), but nerfing the honor after all the premades got most of their stuff and after saying they wouldn't nerf it that made me not question my decision to cancel.

    image
    Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
    if I were to kill a titan tomorrow and no CCP employees showed up to say grats I would petition it.
    Waiting for: the next MMO that lets me make this macro
    if hp < 30 then CastSpell("heal") SpellTargetUnit("player") else CastSpell("smite") end

  • PhaeloPhaelo unitedstates, MIPosts: 7Member
    On my server their were many people going for GM at the same time, for 2 weeks we had 2-3 people all at GM. One person got GM on her priest, and when they added in the new weapons for casters... did it again... The people on our server were not AFK'ers and had hand picked teams that they pvp'ed with and pvp'd only with those people. I was lucky to be on such a team and the skill that the people who got GM had was remarkable. The organization, the corridnation and teamwork of a well organized pvp group is a force that is hard to match. It makes me sick to hear people think they should get something for nothing. I have a new hobby since the pvp system means crap now. I grind reputation! not easy rep like what you can get in AV, i am currently revered with the entire Steamwheedle cartel and hope to hit exalted somewhere around 2 days before launch of BC. this is on top of exalted with every alliance faction including exodar and about 13 others. Even tho you don't get anything with most factions it's something i can feel like i did something with, $10 casuals whine about that next and i will have to look for another new hobbie. I am sorry to hear about the disgraces on your server.
  • severiusseverius sacramento, CAPosts: 1,514Member Common
    The folks at blizzard have started to finally figure something out.  The vast majority of the players of their game do not have the time nor the inclination to continually farm the same instances over and over again.  They have, over the past year or so, demonstrated that they have the tools available to add more content into the game.  But when they were focusing on the 40 man stuff it took alot longer than 20 man or smaller instances.  With the Burning Crusade coming out (from what I have read nad have heard) there is 1 20 man instance with a lockout timer... everything else is 5 and 10 man instances with no lockouts.  The gear available in TBC, well, greens will make some of those tier2 sets look like something crafted :P



    The pvp changes, I think, allow some of the more casual oriented gamers the ability to gear up appropriately for the upcoming release of TBC.  This way they can head out there and begin to enjoy the content just as much as the zerg raiders.  Overall good changes and something that should have been in place from the beginning.  Had it been that way they could well have double the amount of subscriptions that they currently have, and with the shift to smaller intimate instances I imagine that new content will be coming out far sooner.  Hell, I hate world of warcrap but I am tempted to reinstall and reactivate my account now lol.

    image

    image
  • ThonyThony AmsterdamPosts: 215Member
    Originally posted by Phaelo


    These changes make me sick. Getting a full set of high warlord or grand martial gear+weps used to mean you accomplished something, now it is meaningless. Same goes for the pvp mounts. you used to have to grind rep with a faction to exalted to be able to ride cross faction mounts, now everyone has a frickin kitty kat ooo so pretty! shiny pixels!!!! what does a casual need this stuff for anyway? so you can 'stand up' to a 'hard core' player in pvp? you lack the skill he does so your going to lose regardless of gear, they can afford to use consumables just to put you in your place, why does it matter getting smoked when you only play 2 hours a day anyway? casuals are a waste of server resources and BG slots. a hardcore player will allways be better than a casual no matter what, same as their will allways be casuals whining about how they can't get XXX but XXX can.
    <-- 'casual'

    <-- different types of 'hardcore'

    <-- me loling@ casuals think they ever be on 'par' with 'hardcore' players

    Why are you so upset my friend, trust me no need to, your "EPIC" gear will still be beter then the "casual"Epics the can get, try to think that you still have accomplished something as you had "worked" hard for it, so that must mean something atleast for yourself. And afcourse does a casual need that gear, isn't every gamer in some way or form continueing to improve himself, so getting better gear does improve new possibility's for the player, in that regard there is absolute no diverence between a hardcore/casual player. I don't consider meself a casual gamer but tend more to be a hardcore gamer "old school" see me i will help you, guide you, hunt with you, have fun with you but leveling quickly isn't my style because for me  whole idea of mmorpg is i don't have to hurry cause if the game is good it isn't going anywhere and then neither am i. It would be sad if like you said casual are a waist cause for me it will only mean without them we need to get use to empty looking realms/servers and thats not a option, i welcome everyone to a game aslong they act mature, so many people , so many games, so many diverent opinions, i just like forums

  • BigxBigx Portland, ORPosts: 148Member
    Originally posted by Phaelo


    These changes make me sick. Getting a full set of high warlord or grand martial gear+weps used to mean you accomplished something, now it is meaningless. Same goes for the pvp mounts. you used to have to grind rep with a faction to exalted to be able to ride cross faction mounts, now everyone has a frickin kitty kat ooo so pretty! shiny pixels!!!! what does a casual need this stuff for anyway? so you can 'stand up' to a 'hard core' player in pvp? you lack the skill he does so your going to lose regardless of gear, they can afford to use consumables just to put you in your place, why does it matter getting smoked when you only play 2 hours a day anyway? casuals are a waste of server resources and BG slots. a hardcore player will allways be better than a casual no matter what, same as their will allways be casuals whining about how they can't get XXX but XXX can.
    <-- 'casual'

    <-- different types of 'hardcore'

    <-- me loling@ casuals think they ever be on 'par' with 'hardcore' players
    It is people or kids like this this that ruin the game.  Most people play the game to have fun.  People think that being hardcore in a video game puts you up on the food chain.  Wake up call.  IT DOESNT.  It just proves that you have nothing constructive to do with your time. AKA job or collage.  Rewarding a hardcore gamer is only saying that having no life is good.  But in the real life it doesnt mean nothing.  I like the new changes.  Even though I was exalted in all 3 before the patch.  I couldnt invest enough time to get the rank gear.  I laugh when a tier2 or tier3 warr charges and doest hamstring.   Remember that WOW is pve first then PVP thrown in with no end game objectives.  Wow has to counter that WAR is coming up later this year.  As most of us know WAR is pvp first with endgame pvp obectives.  Where the hardcore raider will not make it there.  I have no problem dealing with tier2 or 3 players.  Most of them do not know how to pvp but relie on the gear to make up for lack of skill. 
  • delateurdelateur Spokane, WAPosts: 156Member

    The big distinction here that most PvPers don't seem to get is that the casuals don't really care how we compare to others, we simply want to compete fairly on the same playfields if we decide to do some PvP. Most games, and WoW is no exception, are more gear and macro-oriented (less so on macros now, so primarily gear in WoW). Sure, there's a measure of skill, but no hardcore player is going to tell me that they're far and away better than a casual player in PvP. If they were, they wouldn't be here complaining about the change, because their uberness would easily still win the day over gear.

    Hardcore players often call the casual players a bunch of whiners because they are "responsible" for the game being made easier, less of a raidfest, etc. This is summarily untrue. When a developer/company makes a change like this, they are not kowtowing to the casual player base. They are, instead, looking at where the population is clustered, what areas seem to be underpopulated based on their expectations, and are adjusting things accordingly. The effort in games like this is to allow as many people as possible to experience the content that is available, because more content equals longer subscription times to experience that content. Casual players are not entitled to changes like this, but they are entitled to play a game the way they enjoy playing it, and the company can choose to work more toward that gaming style, or not. I, as a casual gamer, do understand (and I think most casual gamers understand this as well) that some MMOGs are not suited to my playstyle, such as Lineage 2. When I discover this, I move on, perhaps with a comment on how the game does not meet my expectations, but never with an expectation that it SHOULD.

    Hardcore gamers feel upset that vast hours grinding away to get the best gear are now becoming less valuable under the new system, but they devalue how long they were at the top of the heap. I also think, under most circumstances, the only difference between hardcore and casual is time invested. An interest in PvP doesn't really factor into the equation unless that element is tied directly into the largest time sinks in the game that result in the best loot. Casual players simply like to have new, better items. After you cap, that's really the only form of advancement left, so why wouldn't they want it? They also enjoy being on equal footing with hardcore players who devolve into a bully mentality when they have an obvious advantage over someone else. None of these things strikes me as a bad or game breaking. If it results in fewer memberships, it will only be the memberships of those people who tend to worsen the game's community anyway.

    I, for one, feel that WoW understands all of this, and is making an effort to create a game that is enjoyable for all. I'm sure there are plenty of mature hardcore players out there that see this change as a good thing. They've been wanting more people to challenge them, and this will create them. So, bravo Blizzard! Keep up the good work!

  • MenawaMenawa Someplace, MIPosts: 22Member
    Its mind blowing to think that the fanbois think that getting to GM/HW is such a great accomplishment in life prior to the new patch. And its still not a major accomplishment after the new patch. The only requirement needed to achieve such a level is having a pulse and a weak mind that is susceptible to being amused by repetitive, idiotic actions. The PvP iin this game is so mind numbingly boring, simple and predicatable that I couldn't bear playing pass Rank 2 and finally cancelled. Seriously, just out of curiosity, how can anyone bear grinding to GM/HW or wack dragons in instances millions of times that requires 0 use of the brain.  Its like being entertained by thumping sand over and over again . Guess the fanbois lose so much IRL that achieving  those meaningless ranks and getting epic gear that is useless for the war between Alliance and Horde that doesn't exist gives them a huge ego boost which is really sad but GG Blizzard for keeping those kind of people off the streets. Hopefully the upcoming MMO's will provide something that requires more dynamic strategy and tactics with meaing, purpose, and goals  instead of massive time sinks that result in nothing but a fashion show at Iron Forge in WoW.
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