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What would it take to do a complete remake?
Finfid
Member UncommonPosts: 14
in Shadowbane
Keep the game concept, the skill system, races, classes, disicplines, and the great PvP, but toss it all in a newer, modern engine? Everytime I hear about a new MMO coming out, I check to see if it has even some of Shadowbanes awesome design. None ever do. Its really sad.
SHADOWBANE 2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Comments
If anyone had been following DF's primary strengths in features, you'd notice that DF's gonna include a sweet array of skills building/acquisitions' methods with a soft cap, a player controlled quests' engine and a full blown crafting system. All of which, is what SB's lacking to cope with, in its current state. Not to mention that having moved to f2p (albeit with lacking promotional stance to back it up) didn't actually boost the game's existence to the current MMORPGs' fans' awareness with much (if any..apparent) real effects.
We need better than just an engine makeover. Content is king and it's the only way to go..
If they did, to make it succeed better, they need to possibly add something that others would enjoy: Non-PVP servers. ;P
Seriously, I loved the premise, but after buying it (a regret for me, to be sure), and finding out it was PVP-centric, I looked elsewhere. I don't like PVP (even in SWG, EQ, WoW, and Horizons I ran non-PVP), but if they made an RPG with the same variety of races and no PVP, I'd play.
"Of all the things wrong with today's RPGs, 2D characters on a 3D background is the worst."
Shadowbane still rocks. Download it, log in and have fun...it's free! No other game out there can touch it as far as siege warfar/PVP goes.
www.dragonorder.net come join us for some Shadowbane madness!
"Of all the things wrong with today's RPGs, 2D characters on a 3D background is the worst."
yes it's dated, but games where in the end you get a nubmer of how many times you killed and died are boring to me.
In shadowbane, when you fight to protect your city it's all or none. That city may have taken you a year or more to build. That's hardcore, real lose. Shadowbane isn't a ternament game, where you win a rank, with a bunch of numbers that mean nothing near your name, in shadowbane you win a city, and the thrill of risking it all.
Talk bad about Shadowbane graphics all you want( i agree) , but Shadowbane is still the only mmo PVP game out there that lets you build a city, a whole nation, and burn other peoples down. It's a mix between strategy and mmo. The level of team work that is needed for Shadowbane, the real life time invested, and the risk of losing it all will not be found in any other game.
Shadowbane is years ahead and behind all the other games on the market. Graphics are a 3, concept is a 10++++++
On a saving note, where the graphics suck in S.B. The artwork is very nice, so everything doesn't look real, but at least the characters look cool. I've played games where the graphics are cutting edge, but they make all their toons look so stupid I'm embarrassed to even log in. WoW for example. It's insane to think 7 million people actually like playing that game. The toons look like dog toys or my 3 year old brothers squeekie duck. WoO may be smooth, but it's a carebear game....so are alll the other games that try to be hardcore PVP. Shadowbane will go down as the most extreme PVP mmo game ever made.
I take content over beauty. Shadowbane is also the only game out there that has 100% player made content. Every last battle is due to one person wanting to destroy another person. Real people will always be more imaginative and unpredictable than A.I. If you want real fun, and the thrill of burning down entire civilizations play Shadowbane. If you want real challenge..download Shadowbane. If you want to get a high number next to your name, play Quake. If you want to strut around town wearing the cloak of godliness +9....play WoW or EQ2.
Shadowbane =The only real PVP game on the market....end of story.
..sorrry to rant, go back to crafting the boots of great dancing skill or whatever magic robe of charm you were crafting.
Shadowbane is dated not because of the engine. There are many great PvP/siege games, in the RTS market. My problem with Shadowbane is not the graphics, but the lack of PVE. I dislike PvP (why I play Quake). Shadowbane could have been great, but look at the numbers and realize people do not want a solely pvp game. EQ is dated graphically, and yet is still very popular. Heck, UO is more popular. Give us PvE, we play
"Of all the things wrong with today's RPGs, 2D characters on a 3D background is the worst."
- add more pve zones, so the pvp is left alone.
- add pve quests, or a flag so pvpers don't attack one not wanting pvp.
- raise the level cap of pvp/gvg-only, so level 20 for pve is the endgame.
- get a new engine. Yes, the graphics are a little dated (seen -much- worse), but newer engines can also support better gameplay/more content.
- After all this, add more non-bipedal races.
"Of all the things wrong with today's RPGs, 2D characters on a 3D background is the worst."
- add more pve zones, so the pvp is left alone.
- add pve quests, or a flag so pvpers don't attack one not wanting pvp.
- raise the level cap of pvp/gvg-only, so level 20 for pve is the endgame.
- get a new engine. Yes, the graphics are a little dated (seen -much- worse), but newer engines can also support better gameplay/more content.
- After all this, add more non-bipedal races.
Gah! The Carebare-ness of this thread hurts my eyes!
Why make a non-carebear game carebear?
It wouldn't be the same game anymore >.< it'd be WoW/EQ/(insert generic carebear MMO name here) clone number 44 billion.
Oh and the person who said about UO being PvE, eh?
I was always under the impression it was more towards the hardcore full PvP full loot brigade?
Well then, if you don't have a simply opinionated way of actually bringing Shadowbane from a few thousand to a few million, get out of the debate. As far as making a hardcore game more mainstream, they took City of Heroes (a pure PvE game, and very fun to a point) and messed it up by trying to put PvP in, then "diversified" (eg nerfed) the players so they could have a better fight in PvP, therein ruining any leveling chances past 20. They lost many people in City of Heroes....
Point is, if we learn from their mistakes, we can easily have an MMO that would be a major upgrade. EQ/WoW/etc do not have a great PvP engine, and SB's should be left alone, just build a PvE engine around it, and, personally, make more servers and convert them to PvE, and add more content in the way of races (while staying away from the "2D" trap of choosing races with two arms/legs), we'd have a perfect MMO. If you don't think so, let's hear your solution...
"Of all the things wrong with today's RPGs, 2D characters on a 3D background is the worst."
Just wait for Darkfall it's PvP mainly with a good balance of PvE things to do.
Tbh even though your ideas aren't bad they are all pointless when Darkfall is gonna fulfill them all and more anyway so there's no need for a Shadowbane 2.
I was bored when I posted that care bear post... after a re-read of your ideas they aren't too care bear, but I just don't see the point when Darkfall will be the greatest game for people who want a good PvP game with a bit of PvE mixed in to be created thus far.
Just wait for Darkfall it's easier then wanting a Shadowbane 2.
- does it offer a really diversified group of player characters? What I mean is actually making more than the Human and elf-like races, ie centaurs or pixies, even satyrs.
- Is the PvE good, or an equal addition to the PvP (not getting left behind like in City of Heroes)?
- Are there quests that tie in for a good story, ala WoW (bout the best thing WoW had over EQ)?
- Is PvP optional, or mandatory?
If the answers are yes and great (or optional), then you are right. If not, then let's continue talking
By the by, no worries. I enjoted the rebuttal
ADDITIONAL: Visited their site and found the races.... bleh, I smell WoW clone. 6 races total, one looking like an animal, rest human... nothing original. http://www.darkfallonline.com/races/
Sorry, let's continue talking on a SB2 remake.
"Of all the things wrong with today's RPGs, 2D characters on a 3D background is the worst."
Omg if u wanna play a pve game go buy wow and play with all the other 13 year olds. The only reasons that shadowbane is so good is the pvp and the character customization are the most innovative and challenging thus far in any mmo.
I honestly dont understand people who enjoy PvE... The thrill of lining up to kill the same thing you killed yesterday is wasted on me i guess. Especally considering tomorrow you have to go out and kill it again cuz thats all there is to do in a pve based game. Its all one big meaningless grind.
Raiding is even more stupid... "What?! The most powerful beast in the game is this dragon? That group just killed it?!... I want to kill it now too! Man i just killed this thing lets do it again and again and again even though this entire concept makes absolutly no sense. How can i kill the dragon if that other group just did?! Who cares, i want l3wtz so i can kill it faster next time?!?!?!?!"
Also please dont get my started on quests.. The inclusion of quests in a game is almost as bad as making me kill the same mobs for weeks at a time to get a couple levels.. All it is is swapping one type of grind for another. At least in a PVP game the fight is always new and theres always a chance you'll win, or a way to change up your strategy to trump the other guys.
What I personally loved about shadowbane is that in less then a day i could have an r7 toon totally completly trained up and NEVER HAVE TO KILL ANOTHER MOB AGAIN. Until I leveled up the next one that is. Lol.
That and the fact that success is based nearly 100% on the skill of the player, not which fancy glowing sword he has, and not cuz he rolled the FOTM toon. He won cuz he owns you.
PVP does not an MMO make, nor is PVE. It is a combination of the two. Shadowbane does great til level 20, then it seems more like Quake MMO. Yes, you can have PVP, but quite a few people simply don't appreciate it thrown at you for the sake of pleasing the Quake montage. There are people who like to ROLEPLAY a battle, something even WoW lacks (Never heard of an Orc and a Night Elf teaming up to fight a greater evil). While Shadowbane was diverse, the idea of "everyone for themselves" is quite lame for MMOs. Why most PVP-only games seldom last (personally, I think most quit when the new Halo comes out).
As far as redundancy in quests, we are dealing with the same people making quests that made the races (hint hint). The only one I've seen do better at it is Fiesta Online (yes a cutesy anime MMO, but the GMs actually listen somewhat). While it's still 2D in races (humans only), the quests are interesting, and you seldom go after the same monster twice (save for grinding to level). When the characters are more diverse, usually the quests are a bit more interesting. BTW, Shadowbane wasn't the best in diversifying, City of Heroes was (last I heard, there were 999,000+ different looks, not including special races).
Funny, in Fiesta Online, with 20 hours of game, you can have a level 20 character. Does than mean I can beat mobs? No, that is what is interesting. If you can beat mobs at any mid-range level, then the game is too easy. I would like a little challenge with my MMO experience, thankyouverymuch.
If you want to play a game where 100% is the player, go to a LAN party and play there. MMOs should not be played simply for "uber-gear" or "I'll kick newbie's rear," it should be simply a nice experience, with a diverse set, and choices to make. They shouldn't just be a button-mash.
"Of all the things wrong with today's RPGs, 2D characters on a 3D background is the worst."
I really dont see how you can draw any kind of correlation between shadowbane and quake.. They're two totally different experiences as far as gameplay goes. In quake you're locked in a tiny little room where you can run around picking up the weapon of your choice and then proceed to shoot everyone in the face with it so that you can kill them in one shot. Does even one little bit of that sound like fun? Not to me..
Considering the fact that quake is a FPS and SB is an MMORPG it doesnt even make sense to compare them, in my mind its like comparing apples to avocados. Sure they both start with the letter A and they grow on trees but thats as far as the similarity goes. Show me a character in SB that can kill people in one shot or can pick up a skill or grab a power up while fighting 20 people in a small room, it just doesnt work that way in SB you need strategy and planning to succeed, as well as skill and quick reactions.
Now according to your last post, which i dont need to quote since its directly above this one, you like a little challenge with your MMO's, well my friend it seems to me you're making the perfect argument for why the SB Pvp model should be accepted throughout all MMO's today. I mean what could be more challenging then fighting something that can think for it's self, counter your strategy, and fight back with one of it's own?
As far as the diversity i mentioned, i was talking about diversity of the actual characters, not their costumes. I dont think coloring my cape purple makes me all that different since all the skills i pick are the same. Shadowbane employs a class based skill system, wherein you pick your class early on and then you get access to a number of skills and powers which you can level up and make stronger. Since its so cheap to get all the skills initally ( im talking about spending one point in each skill just for access ) we might as well assume that every character gets access to every skill/power and can from that point choose where they want to specialize. In a game like CoH you get to pick your primary abilities, and a secondary set of abilities. While this offers a good amount of diversity, after a while you start to realize, if i want to do a lot of damage i should make my blaster such-and-such a way, etc. Then you get all the FOTM builds and its just really not very fun/customized imo. Not to say the same thing doesnt happen in SB, but since every class can be viable in so many different ways it tends to be a minimal problem, as well as giving you lots of room to experiment with new stuff.
And i understand the argument of the flawed developers putting the flawed content into their flawed game, im saying quests arent very fun to begin with why would i want to base my leveling experience on that or fighting the same mindless AI in a different skin my entire career. And roleplaying.. I dont think i can conjure a better game for roleplaying storming a castle then SB. To be honest my first guild in SB was a full RP guild and it was a blast, if you want to RP in SB you gotta look for 'em, on mourning there was an entire guild that RPed being an Elf society with minotaur slaves etc. And they did well.
This is the only quote im going to make from your post:
"MMOs should not be played simply for "uber-gear" or "I'll kick newbie's rear," it should be simply a nice experience, with a diverse set, and choices to make. They shouldn't just be a button-mash."
Did you ever play shadowbane past level 20? Diversity and fun are SB's middle name. If you played it and simply mashed buttons all the time then you probably didnt have a really enjoyable experience. Also you could do very well with store bought garbage, as long as you had the skill to back it up.
If I had to play a game that was exclusively PvE then I agree with you it has to be challenging. To take it another step forward I would rather play a game where all the NPC's you fight are identical to players, not in look but as far as skills/stats/ and strategy goes. When I take on a camp of brigands how come i hit them three times and they die but i just got hit 30 and im still going? Not fun. Make the experience of fighting anything an epic battle and then I could understand why PvE could be fun, sadly most MMO's think pve should just be a great big time sink to keep players sitting in their world for as long as possible.
The correlation comes from the people who I typically ran into, not the type of game. They like running around and kill people - a lot, ala Quake. It's the type that hangs by the entrance and follow someone twenty levels lower than you (or even 10 levels lower, depending on the game), and kill you as soon as you're in a hazard area. There's no skill to that, no trick, it's like going against one of those dragons, on your own. ie, call it ganking, or griefing.
As far as similarities go in ANY PVP-centric MMO, there are always people who play it not for roleplaying, they use it as another FPS, albeit one they have to grind in. They take characters to max level as they can, then go after "newbies" (typically 10 levels lower or more), and kill them, sometimes repeatedly. To me, the thought of some level 40 coming after my level 5 just cause he can does not amuse me, especially when I'm going through the grind, and I lose XP, or worse, some of my equipment.
A little challenge does not mean independent-minded, but tackling quests that on my own I definitely could not even come close to finishing. One MMO I'm playing now has me going after yellows than more than one can nearly kill me. Strategy comes into play then, figuring how to not get killed, nor attract more attention (which they are in groups of 3 on quite a few occasions). To me, last time I PvPed, it was simply a button-mashing contest, the opponent was too easy (knock-down powers are nice), so yes, very boring. To me, it's easier to predict a live person after a second of watching him/her fight.
I now did not say all PvE, I do want a mix, but I want it to be realistic. I don't wanna see a mage take out a fighter at close-range lest it's a knock-away power. PvE and PvP should mesh together, so one doesn't get left behind at the expense of another. PvE doesn't have to be on par with another person, but challenging enough to play to strengths and weaknesses. PvP should be by choice, and not PvPing means you can't be PvPed. Roleplaying needs to be centric, and get rid of the FPS-mindset. Why I like MMORPG, RP is supposed to be right there in it.
"Of all the things wrong with today's RPGs, 2D characters on a 3D background is the worst."
If they did, to make it succeed better, they need to possibly add something that others would enjoy: Non-PVP servers. ;P
Seriously, I loved the premise, but after buying it (a regret for me, to be sure), and finding out it was PVP-centric, I looked elsewhere. I don't like PVP (even in SWG, EQ, WoW, and Horizons I ran non-PVP), but if they made an RPG with the same variety of races and no PVP, I'd play.
You dare speak such words, that is what SB is a pvp game. I am all for the make SB moden plan.