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StraddenStradden Managing EditorHalifax, NSPosts: 6,696Member
Ok, some people currently using this forum seem to need a reminder about of RoC. I have noticed a disturbing number of threads that attack other people. THIS IS STRICTLY AGAINST OUR RULES. You can not come in here and talk about "Stupid NGE people". It's ok to call someone's opinion idiodic, but it's not ok to call someone an idiot.

People who disagree with you are just as entitled to their opinions as you are, and raking them over the coals in these forums is not going to be tolerated.

If you want to talk about the NGE and how much you dislike it. Fine, but we don't need 1,000 threads on the subject. Frankly, it's been a year. If you're still upset about it, I don't blame you and I support you in that. Your anger does not give you the right to flame others. This is not an "open forum for hate".  If you want to discuss the old game here, do so. If you want to express your displeasure over the changes, do so. DO NOT make it a personal issue. DO NOT berate others.

All that we are asking from you is that you post in a civilized manner.

I hope this clears things up for you.

Cheers
Jon Wood



Cheers,
Jon Wood
Managing Editor
MMORPG.com

«1

Comments

  • ShadowLordsShadowLords somewhere, CTPosts: 186Member



    Originally posted by Stradden
    Ok, some people currently using this forum seem to need a reminder about of RoC. I have noticed a disturbing number of threads that attack other people. THIS IS STRICTLY AGAINST OUR RULES. You can not come in here and talk about "Stupid NGE people". It's ok to call someone's opinion idiodic, but it's not ok to call someone an idiot.

    People who disagree with you are just as entitled to their opinions as you are, and raking them over the coals in these forums is not going to be tolerated.

    If you want to talk about the NGE and how much you dislike it. Fine, but we don't need 1,000 threads on the subject. Frankly, it's been a year. If you're still upset about it, I don't blame you and I support you in that. Your anger does not give you the right to flame others. This is not an "open forum for hate".  If you want to discuss the old game here, do so. If you want to express your displeasure over the changes, do so. DO NOT make it a personal issue. DO NOT berate others.

    All that we are asking from you is that you post in a civilized manner.

    I hope this clears things up for you.

    Cheers
    Jon Wood



    This entire post seems one sided. You must be saying that anti-NGE people have to take the flaming, beratement, and personal attacks from the proNGE people.

    It seems pretty silly that you have to post something like this in the "Refugee" forum regarding the treatment of proNGE people. Maybe the problem isn't the antiNGE'rs or the former SWG players. Maybe just maybe the problem is with some of the proNGErs posting in the "Refugee" forum because they don't like what they are reading ... even if it is the truth.

  • XcathdraXcathdra Springfield, MOPosts: 1,027Member



    Originally posted by ShadowLords



    Originally posted by Stradden
    Ok, some people currently using this forum seem to need a reminder about of RoC. I have noticed a disturbing number of threads that attack other people. THIS IS STRICTLY AGAINST OUR RULES. You can not come in here and talk about "Stupid NGE people". It's ok to call someone's opinion idiodic, but it's not ok to call someone an idiot.

    People who disagree with you are just as entitled to their opinions as you are, and raking them over the coals in these forums is not going to be tolerated.

    If you want to talk about the NGE and how much you dislike it. Fine, but we don't need 1,000 threads on the subject. Frankly, it's been a year. If you're still upset about it, I don't blame you and I support you in that. Your anger does not give you the right to flame others. This is not an "open forum for hate".  If you want to discuss the old game here, do so. If you want to express your displeasure over the changes, do so. DO NOT make it a personal issue. DO NOT berate others.

    All that we are asking from you is that you post in a civilized manner.

    I hope this clears things up for you.

    Cheers
    Jon Wood


    This entire post seems one sided. You must be saying that anti-NGE people have to take the flaming, beratement, and personal attacks from the proNGE people.

    It seems pretty silly that you have to post something like this in the "Refugee" forum regarding the treatment of proNGE people. Maybe the problem isn't the antiNGE'rs or the former SWG players. Maybe just maybe the problem is with some of the proNGErs posting in the "Refugee" forum because they don't like what they are reading ... even if it is the truth.


    /QFE.... I understand this place is a private forum and we are grateful for allowing us to express our discontent with SOE/LEC... i have to agree your enforcement is one sided, even on this side of the forum you guys split. We accepted the fact you split the forums for whatever reason you had. We posted in the refugee forum, and you guys were aware of our feelings. We stayed away from the current player side... Yet you guys continue to dispence unhanded bans and what not. If we are not welcome here then jsut say so, and we shall move on. If you are doing this because of advertising dollars, then say that and we will move on. Dont split the forums, post the rules, and then only enforce them on this side of the line.

    If I wanted that form of treatment I would go post on the SOE forums... I expect it from them.. not from you guys..

    Xcathdra

    Having access to a billion $ IP - Billions of dollars..
    Having access to a massive fan base of said IP - Even more Billons...
    Singly handedly alienating them due to stupidity - Priceless.

  • ObraikObraik ChristchurchPosts: 7,261Member



    Originally posted by ShadowLords



    Originally posted by Stradden
    Ok, some people currently using this forum seem to need a reminder about of RoC. I have noticed a disturbing number of threads that attack other people. THIS IS STRICTLY AGAINST OUR RULES. You can not come in here and talk about "Stupid NGE people". It's ok to call someone's opinion idiodic, but it's not ok to call someone an idiot.

    People who disagree with you are just as entitled to their opinions as you are, and raking them over the coals in these forums is not going to be tolerated.

    If you want to talk about the NGE and how much you dislike it. Fine, but we don't need 1,000 threads on the subject. Frankly, it's been a year. If you're still upset about it, I don't blame you and I support you in that. Your anger does not give you the right to flame others. This is not an "open forum for hate".  If you want to discuss the old game here, do so. If you want to express your displeasure over the changes, do so. DO NOT make it a personal issue. DO NOT berate others.

    All that we are asking from you is that you post in a civilized manner.

    I hope this clears things up for you.

    Cheers
    Jon Wood


    This entire post seems one sided. You must be saying that anti-NGE people have to take the flaming, beratement, and personal attacks from the proNGE people.

    It seems pretty silly that you have to post something like this in the "Refugee" forum regarding the treatment of proNGE people. Maybe the problem isn't the antiNGE'rs or the former SWG players. Maybe just maybe the problem is with some of the proNGErs posting in the "Refugee" forum because they don't like what they are reading ... even if it is the truth.



    Firstly, there's not many people here on these forums posting that play or support the current game.  Very rarely do I see those that do support it (myself included) outright call people names.  Please show me the posts where you see me or others pre-cu supporters morons, retards, kiddies, sucking at life, losers, and I could go on with the list if you really want ;)  THAT is what Stradden is talking about.

    image

    image

  • iskareotiskareot Crown Point, INPosts: 2,143Member



    Originally posted by Obraik



    Originally posted by ShadowLords



    Originally posted by Stradden
    Ok, some people currently using this forum seem to need a reminder about of RoC. I have noticed a disturbing number of threads that attack other people. THIS IS STRICTLY AGAINST OUR RULES. You can not come in here and talk about "Stupid NGE people". It's ok to call someone's opinion idiodic, but it's not ok to call someone an idiot.

    People who disagree with you are just as entitled to their opinions as you are, and raking them over the coals in these forums is not going to be tolerated.

    If you want to talk about the NGE and how much you dislike it. Fine, but we don't need 1,000 threads on the subject. Frankly, it's been a year. If you're still upset about it, I don't blame you and I support you in that. Your anger does not give you the right to flame others. This is not an "open forum for hate".  If you want to discuss the old game here, do so. If you want to express your displeasure over the changes, do so. DO NOT make it a personal issue. DO NOT berate others.

    All that we are asking from you is that you post in a civilized manner.

    I hope this clears things up for you.

    Cheers
    Jon Wood


    This entire post seems one sided. You must be saying that anti-NGE people have to take the flaming, beratement, and personal attacks from the proNGE people.

    It seems pretty silly that you have to post something like this in the "Refugee" forum regarding the treatment of proNGE people. Maybe the problem isn't the antiNGE'rs or the former SWG players. Maybe just maybe the problem is with some of the proNGErs posting in the "Refugee" forum because they don't like what they are reading ... even if it is the truth.



    Firstly, there's not many people here on these forums posting that play or support the current game.  Very rarely do I see those that do support it (myself included) outright call people names.  Please show me the posts where you see me or others pre-cu supporters morons, retards, kiddies, sucking at life, losers, and I could go on with the list if you really want ;)  THAT is what Stradden is talking about.


    One must use common sense to know the difference though.

    For instance, Nancy McNtyre thinking that people did not need to read in the pre-NGE era could be considered a insult as such.   In fact I do consider it just that.   They made the NGE without this issue and made sure that people did not need to read as much so does this insult the current NGE playerbase?

    I think it does.. but hey, this is just one example of what is considered a insult to some is considered a great thing to others.    My 7 year old does not like to read, however he does not like the NGE either.. so who knows lol.

    Insults are somthing that each person sees different.   No two ways about it... I find the entire game right now a insult to gamers all over....lol so maybe the whole game should just be considered one big giant ball of hate and failure lol.

    ______________________________
    I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process.....
    SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE
    Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1

  • ObraikObraik ChristchurchPosts: 7,261Member



    Originally posted by iskareot



    Originally posted by Obraik



    Originally posted by ShadowLords



    Originally posted by Stradden
    Ok, some people currently using this forum seem to need a reminder about of RoC. I have noticed a disturbing number of threads that attack other people. THIS IS STRICTLY AGAINST OUR RULES. You can not come in here and talk about "Stupid NGE people". It's ok to call someone's opinion idiodic, but it's not ok to call someone an idiot.

    People who disagree with you are just as entitled to their opinions as you are, and raking them over the coals in these forums is not going to be tolerated.

    If you want to talk about the NGE and how much you dislike it. Fine, but we don't need 1,000 threads on the subject. Frankly, it's been a year. If you're still upset about it, I don't blame you and I support you in that. Your anger does not give you the right to flame others. This is not an "open forum for hate".  If you want to discuss the old game here, do so. If you want to express your displeasure over the changes, do so. DO NOT make it a personal issue. DO NOT berate others.

    All that we are asking from you is that you post in a civilized manner.

    I hope this clears things up for you.

    Cheers
    Jon Wood


    This entire post seems one sided. You must be saying that anti-NGE people have to take the flaming, beratement, and personal attacks from the proNGE people.

    It seems pretty silly that you have to post something like this in the "Refugee" forum regarding the treatment of proNGE people. Maybe the problem isn't the antiNGE'rs or the former SWG players. Maybe just maybe the problem is with some of the proNGErs posting in the "Refugee" forum because they don't like what they are reading ... even if it is the truth.



    Firstly, there's not many people here on these forums posting that play or support the current game.  Very rarely do I see those that do support it (myself included) outright call people names.  Please show me the posts where you see me or others pre-cu supporters morons, retards, kiddies, sucking at life, losers, and I could go on with the list if you really want ;)  THAT is what Stradden is talking about.


    One must use common sense to know the difference though.

    For instance, Nancy McNtyre thinking that people did not need to read in the pre-NGE era could be considered a insult as such.   In fact I do consider it just that.   They made the NGE without this issue and made sure that people did not need to read as much so does this insult the current NGE playerbase?

    I think it does.. but hey, this is just one example of what is considered a insult to some is considered a great thing to others.    My 7 year old does not like to read, however he does not like the NGE either.. so who knows lol.

    Insults are somthing that each person sees different.   No two ways about it... I find the entire game right now a insult to gamers all over....lol so maybe the whole game should just be considered one big giant ball of hate and failure lol.



    No matter what way you put it, words such as moron and retard are insults.

    image

    image

  • UnagiUnagi Walnut Creek, CAPosts: 99Member
    Happy anniversary?





  • SamuraiswordSamuraisword Washington DC, MDPosts: 2,111Member

    Stradden you don't need to tell us the difference between calling someone an idiot and calling what someone says idiotic. We know the difference, it's your moderator staff that seems to be clueless in this regard.

    I have reported people for calling someone an idiot before and NOTHING was done. The post wasn't deleted or edited and a week later I still could not report it again because the message said "this post has been reported already". TRAIN YOUR STAFF PROPERLY ON THESE RULES!

    The flip side is that we don't expect to get posts deleted for calling someone's views idiotic which does happen. Maybe a little personal responsibility from the moderators like including their real name in the email they send us and allowing us to reply to that email would resolve some of these issues.

    It's obvious that part of the problem is pro NGE players are trolling in the Refuge forum. Why is this? You split the forums for a reason. What was the purpose? Why don't you tell all the Obraiks to stay out? They have their own special forum to play in.

    image

  • ghettochildeghettochilde Barnegat, NJPosts: 50Member



    Originally posted by Stradden 


    DO NOT make it a personal issue.






      Are you kidding me?

      In case you haven't figured this out yet, this is a very personal issue for a lot of us.

      We would love to have a civilized discussion about the pre-NGE game, our frustrations with NGE/SOE/LA, our hopes for the future, etc.  In fact, many of us have also done so on other boards in other forums.  Some of us would like to continue to do so here.  But what would you do in our place?

    What would you do if (for example) your favorite TV show was cancelled.  And you were talking to a friend, who also liked that show, about the possiblity that it would be coming back.  Then I walked over to where you were talking, clear across the room.  I overheard what you were saying and, disliking that show because i preferred the one they put in its timeslot, said "Excuse me, but that show was really, really stupid, and its never coming back, EVER, so just get over it.  I don't know why you dont just watch this new show - anyone can see its 1000 times better than that old piece of crap was."

    What would you do then?

     Well, unless "your ideas are idiotic" (that better?) you would tell me to go you-know-what somewhere really uncomfortable (like the back of a volkswagon).

      Asking us not to take it personal when someone tries to tell us we're wrong on this issue is basically the same as asking us not to post here.  If that's what your saying, by all means just say it.  There are other places to go.  Your site provides a lot of good content besides the forums and im sure some of the Vets will still use it for that and for the other games' forums.  But do not pretend to be unbiased - or worse, pretend to "understand" and "support" us, then proceed to let others kick us while we are down, and then ban us when we try to defend ourselves.  We have been treated like crap, and been told our opinions don't matter, for a year now.  We spoke with our feet a year ago, and we will do it again here, if that's what you wish.

    image

     

  • iskareotiskareot Crown Point, INPosts: 2,143Member



    Originally posted by Obraik



    Originally posted by iskareot



    Originally posted by Obraik



    Originally posted by ShadowLords



    Originally posted by Stradden
    Ok, some people currently using this forum seem to need a reminder about of RoC. I have noticed a disturbing number of threads that attack other people. THIS IS STRICTLY AGAINST OUR RULES. You can not come in here and talk about "Stupid NGE people". It's ok to call someone's opinion idiodic, but it's not ok to call someone an idiot.

    People who disagree with you are just as entitled to their opinions as you are, and raking them over the coals in these forums is not going to be tolerated.

    If you want to talk about the NGE and how much you dislike it. Fine, but we don't need 1,000 threads on the subject. Frankly, it's been a year. If you're still upset about it, I don't blame you and I support you in that. Your anger does not give you the right to flame others. This is not an "open forum for hate".  If you want to discuss the old game here, do so. If you want to express your displeasure over the changes, do so. DO NOT make it a personal issue. DO NOT berate others.

    All that we are asking from you is that you post in a civilized manner.

    I hope this clears things up for you.

    Cheers
    Jon Wood


    This entire post seems one sided. You must be saying that anti-NGE people have to take the flaming, beratement, and personal attacks from the proNGE people.

    It seems pretty silly that you have to post something like this in the "Refugee" forum regarding the treatment of proNGE people. Maybe the problem isn't the antiNGE'rs or the former SWG players. Maybe just maybe the problem is with some of the proNGErs posting in the "Refugee" forum because they don't like what they are reading ... even if it is the truth.



    Firstly, there's not many people here on these forums posting that play or support the current game.  Very rarely do I see those that do support it (myself included) outright call people names.  Please show me the posts where you see me or others pre-cu supporters morons, retards, kiddies, sucking at life, losers, and I could go on with the list if you really want ;)  THAT is what Stradden is talking about.


    One must use common sense to know the difference though.

    For instance, Nancy McNtyre thinking that people did not need to read in the pre-NGE era could be considered a insult as such.   In fact I do consider it just that.   They made the NGE without this issue and made sure that people did not need to read as much so does this insult the current NGE playerbase?

    I think it does.. but hey, this is just one example of what is considered a insult to some is considered a great thing to others.    My 7 year old does not like to read, however he does not like the NGE either.. so who knows lol.

    Insults are somthing that each person sees different.   No two ways about it... I find the entire game right now a insult to gamers all over....lol so maybe the whole game should just be considered one big giant ball of hate and failure lol.



    No matter what way you put it, words such as moron and retard are insults.


    Not exactly....look up what they mean.   It is my opinion as such when to use those words.   In a general speaking voice... I think the NGE player base could be considered sub-par to most MMO gamers.   Now then, this is my opinion.   BUT see, here is the catch... I have ammo with Devs like Chris, TH, Producers, Presidents, Quotes all over the place to help me with this concept.   Saying the game was harder, more complex and more of a challenge only renforces this.

    So if you think about it, the entire NGE concept is a step backwards and is a insult.   Look at what it did?  Look at what it achieved?   Look at the public view.. Look at the PROS that the this brought and look at the cons...

    It rolls down hill,  when you make a game as simple as you do or change it based on how hard it was in the first place with so many choices and complexity your going to have some fallout.

    Generally speaking, you can say or voice what you want.  Sorry Obriak, I know what kind of player someone has to be to play and PAY for the NGE... it's not someone who cares about being lied to, tricked, set-up or told 100 things that would come to be and then have them changed on yourself and just accept it.

    See the difference is that I was the gamer first... I loved the game so I know the one side of this... NOW I KNOW the screwed over side and have played the NGE, I have tried it... I KNOW THE DIFFERENCE.

    I know that at my age or gaming level that the NGE is about 10 steps backwards from what we had.   So you will have people that are no longer challenged by the game at all... it in fact is just "there".

    No matter what people want to think or say... the NGE was made for a younger, less thinking, less complexity type crowd... WHATS WORSE IS THEY almost brag about it.

    It is no secret the NGE was made to simplify the game...so how does this reflect the playerbase??  What? we can't say it?  We can't discuss it?  But they can? 

    I know the difference if people are afraid to say it then maybe someone should take this up with SOE and the concept of the NGE itself.

    So generally speaking the NGE and it's goals are being met on a playerbase level of complextiy that is for sure.

    Don't like it?   Take it up with them... you pay them now, not us.   We know better.

    Is that a insult?  Nope -- just a fact...

    ______________________________
    I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process.....
    SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE
    Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1

  • ObraikObraik ChristchurchPosts: 7,261Member



    Originally posted by iskareot



    Originally posted by Obraik



    Originally posted by iskareot



    Originally posted by Obraik



    Originally posted by ShadowLords



    Originally posted by Stradden
    Ok, some people currently using this forum seem to need a reminder about of RoC. I have noticed a disturbing number of threads that attack other people. THIS IS STRICTLY AGAINST OUR RULES. You can not come in here and talk about "Stupid NGE people". It's ok to call someone's opinion idiodic, but it's not ok to call someone an idiot.

    People who disagree with you are just as entitled to their opinions as you are, and raking them over the coals in these forums is not going to be tolerated.

    If you want to talk about the NGE and how much you dislike it. Fine, but we don't need 1,000 threads on the subject. Frankly, it's been a year. If you're still upset about it, I don't blame you and I support you in that. Your anger does not give you the right to flame others. This is not an "open forum for hate".  If you want to discuss the old game here, do so. If you want to express your displeasure over the changes, do so. DO NOT make it a personal issue. DO NOT berate others.

    All that we are asking from you is that you post in a civilized manner.

    I hope this clears things up for you.

    Cheers
    Jon Wood


    This entire post seems one sided. You must be saying that anti-NGE people have to take the flaming, beratement, and personal attacks from the proNGE people.

    It seems pretty silly that you have to post something like this in the "Refugee" forum regarding the treatment of proNGE people. Maybe the problem isn't the antiNGE'rs or the former SWG players. Maybe just maybe the problem is with some of the proNGErs posting in the "Refugee" forum because they don't like what they are reading ... even if it is the truth.



    Firstly, there's not many people here on these forums posting that play or support the current game.  Very rarely do I see those that do support it (myself included) outright call people names.  Please show me the posts where you see me or others pre-cu supporters morons, retards, kiddies, sucking at life, losers, and I could go on with the list if you really want ;)  THAT is what Stradden is talking about.


    One must use common sense to know the difference though.

    For instance, Nancy McNtyre thinking that people did not need to read in the pre-NGE era could be considered a insult as such.   In fact I do consider it just that.   They made the NGE without this issue and made sure that people did not need to read as much so does this insult the current NGE playerbase?

    I think it does.. but hey, this is just one example of what is considered a insult to some is considered a great thing to others.    My 7 year old does not like to read, however he does not like the NGE either.. so who knows lol.

    Insults are somthing that each person sees different.   No two ways about it... I find the entire game right now a insult to gamers all over....lol so maybe the whole game should just be considered one big giant ball of hate and failure lol.



    No matter what way you put it, words such as moron and retard are insults.


    Not exactly....look up what they mean.   It is my opinion as such when to use those words.   In a general speaking voice... I think the NGE player base could be considered sub-par to most MMO gamers.   Now then, this is my opinion.   BUT see, here is the catch... I have ammo with Devs like Chris, TH, Producers, Presidents, Quotes all over the place to help me with this concept.   Saying the game was harder, more complex and more of a challenge only renforces this.

    So if you think about it, the entire NGE concept is a step backwards and is a insult.   Look at what it did?  Look at what it achieved?   Look at the public view.. Look at the PROS that the this brought and look at the cons...

    It rolls down hill,  when you make a game as simple as you do or change it based on how hard it was in the first place with so many choices and complexity your going to have some fallout.

    Generally speaking, you can say or voice what you want.  Sorry Obriak, I know what kind of player someone has to be to play and PAY for the NGE... it's not someone who cares about being lied to, tricked, set-up or told 100 things that would come to be and then have them changed on yourself and just accept it.

    See the difference is that I was the gamer first... I loved the game so I know the one side of this... NOW I KNOW the screwed over side and have played the NGE, I have tried it... I KNOW THE DIFFERENCE.

    I know that at my age or gaming level that the NGE is about 10 steps backwards from what we had.   So you will have people that are no longer challenged by the game at all... it in fact is just "there".

    No matter what people want to think or say... the NGE was made for a younger, less thinking, less complexity type crowd... WHATS WORSE IS THEY almost brag about it.

    It is no secret the NGE was made to simplify the game...so how does this reflect the playerbase??  What? we can't say it?  We can't discuss it?  But they can? 

    I know the difference if people are afraid to say it then maybe someone should take this up with SOE and the concept of the NGE itself.

    So generally speaking the NGE and it's goals are being met on a playerbase level of complextiy that is for sure.

    Don't like it?   Take it up with them... you pay them now, not us.   We know better?

    Is that a insult?  Nope -- just a fact.



    Sub-par to other MMO players = Insult

    image

    image

  • iskareotiskareot Crown Point, INPosts: 2,143Member



    Originally posted by Obraik



    Originally posted by iskareot



    Originally posted by Obraik



    Originally posted by iskareot



    Originally posted by Obraik



    Originally posted by ShadowLords



    Originally posted by Stradden
    Ok, some people currently using this forum seem to need a reminder about of RoC. I have noticed a disturbing number of threads that attack other people. THIS IS STRICTLY AGAINST OUR RULES. You can not come in here and talk about "Stupid NGE people". It's ok to call someone's opinion idiodic, but it's not ok to call someone an idiot.

    People who disagree with you are just as entitled to their opinions as you are, and raking them over the coals in these forums is not going to be tolerated.

    If you want to talk about the NGE and how much you dislike it. Fine, but we don't need 1,000 threads on the subject. Frankly, it's been a year. If you're still upset about it, I don't blame you and I support you in that. Your anger does not give you the right to flame others. This is not an "open forum for hate".  If you want to discuss the old game here, do so. If you want to express your displeasure over the changes, do so. DO NOT make it a personal issue. DO NOT berate others.

    All that we are asking from you is that you post in a civilized manner.

    I hope this clears things up for you.

    Cheers
    Jon Wood


    This entire post seems one sided. You must be saying that anti-NGE people have to take the flaming, beratement, and personal attacks from the proNGE people.

    It seems pretty silly that you have to post something like this in the "Refugee" forum regarding the treatment of proNGE people. Maybe the problem isn't the antiNGE'rs or the former SWG players. Maybe just maybe the problem is with some of the proNGErs posting in the "Refugee" forum because they don't like what they are reading ... even if it is the truth.



    Firstly, there's not many people here on these forums posting that play or support the current game.  Very rarely do I see those that do support it (myself included) outright call people names.  Please show me the posts where you see me or others pre-cu supporters morons, retards, kiddies, sucking at life, losers, and I could go on with the list if you really want ;)  THAT is what Stradden is talking about.


    One must use common sense to know the difference though.

    For instance, Nancy McNtyre thinking that people did not need to read in the pre-NGE era could be considered a insult as such.   In fact I do consider it just that.   They made the NGE without this issue and made sure that people did not need to read as much so does this insult the current NGE playerbase?

    I think it does.. but hey, this is just one example of what is considered a insult to some is considered a great thing to others.    My 7 year old does not like to read, however he does not like the NGE either.. so who knows lol.

    Insults are somthing that each person sees different.   No two ways about it... I find the entire game right now a insult to gamers all over....lol so maybe the whole game should just be considered one big giant ball of hate and failure lol.



    No matter what way you put it, words such as moron and retard are insults.


    Not exactly....look up what they mean.   It is my opinion as such when to use those words.   In a general speaking voice... I think the NGE player base could be considered sub-par to most MMO gamers.   Now then, this is my opinion.   BUT see, here is the catch... I have ammo with Devs like Chris, TH, Producers, Presidents, Quotes all over the place to help me with this concept.   Saying the game was harder, more complex and more of a challenge only renforces this.

    So if you think about it, the entire NGE concept is a step backwards and is a insult.   Look at what it did?  Look at what it achieved?   Look at the public view.. Look at the PROS that the this brought and look at the cons...

    It rolls down hill,  when you make a game as simple as you do or change it based on how hard it was in the first place with so many choices and complexity your going to have some fallout.

    Generally speaking, you can say or voice what you want.  Sorry Obriak, I know what kind of player someone has to be to play and PAY for the NGE... it's not someone who cares about being lied to, tricked, set-up or told 100 things that would come to be and then have them changed on yourself and just accept it.

    See the difference is that I was the gamer first... I loved the game so I know the one side of this... NOW I KNOW the screwed over side and have played the NGE, I have tried it... I KNOW THE DIFFERENCE.

    I know that at my age or gaming level that the NGE is about 10 steps backwards from what we had.   So you will have people that are no longer challenged by the game at all... it in fact is just "there".

    No matter what people want to think or say... the NGE was made for a younger, less thinking, less complexity type crowd... WHATS WORSE IS THEY almost brag about it.

    It is no secret the NGE was made to simplify the game...so how does this reflect the playerbase??  What? we can't say it?  We can't discuss it?  But they can? 

    I know the difference if people are afraid to say it then maybe someone should take this up with SOE and the concept of the NGE itself.

    So generally speaking the NGE and it's goals are being met on a playerbase level of complextiy that is for sure.

    Don't like it?   Take it up with them... you pay them now, not us.   We know better?

    Is that a insult?  Nope -- just a fact.



    Sub-par to other MMO players = Insult


    Then that is to the entire NGE playerbase.   Ooops... guess what I can prove the NGE is sub-par, I can also prove that they wanted to simplify the game with the NGE concept.   I can also prove that they felt the prior game was to hard, complex and was "much to much reading"...

    The question is can you prove anywhere that the NGE was made to be complex and hard lol.

    See, my thought is the game itself is a insult.  So then the effect of people playing it I think are more accepting and or the most gulable gaming crowd I have ever seen.   I can prove this though... see that is the real issue.

    These are not just "made up" things I am saying... I am saying that people in this game RIGHT NOW accept more lies, more downfalls, more issues then I have ever seen in any other game.   I have seen alot since my old BBS days online too.   The point is, what one considers a insult some may consider a fact.. OR better yet they may consider it "The Norm" if you will.

    See what's great is that I can do that here... You can actually say how you feel, insulting you does nothing for me... so don't worry.   Your playing the game and defending it... you do all of this to yourself just fine without anyone helping you.   So do not think anyone here needs to really insult anyone.     The NGErs have thier great game, but oddly it is funny to see them defend it and then go back into the game to see the 4 people standing in Talus starport trying to hold that defense.

    Again... and to be clear here... I think a insult can be viewed as several different things in this forum now.   But not because of US, but because of SOE and the staff...

    Hey look THEY MADE THE BED.... you should expect some issues with this, it's almost normal fallout at this point.

    Obriak you would have more of a leg to stand on in this debate if there was somthing to win.... BUT there is not, the NGE is a proven failure.   

    I sometimes look at this like David Koresh and his followers...    If you think about it for a second there is some things that seem the same in the following measures...

    People followed him without any dissagreement or even challenged or questioned what he did, making common sense and what we know as logic -- thrown out the door in most cases...

    Did we all think he was nuts?   Sure.. I would say the majority of people did...  In fact people outside of his group thought he should be examined if any thing for following and trusting thier beliefs.. the thought of having 12 year old wives and 100 sons is a bit extreme and or not as humane as MOST think based on society today.

    So in effect because he believed a certain way people thought he was insane...and or crazy based on fact presented to them.

    Well based on facts presented to me about the NGE I feel that most the of the NGE playerbase is the most accepting, non-challenging, following without question, gulable gaming playerbase I have ever seen.

    Now am I wrong?  Is it wrong to voice this? Based on the info I have , and what I have seen myself I think I can prove this even if I need to.

    Like it or not, I can debate this all day and all night with facts and even opinions from the people that make the freaking game or DID MAKE IT.   

    So if you take it as a insult that the NGE is a sub-par MMO with more of a bad rep, backed up by facts then maybe you should look at what your playing and involved with because if you think that the NGE is some sort of global gaming achievment in the industry then please prove this to me.

    Because short of it proving to people of WHAT NOT TO DO I think I can safely say you can't.

    ______________________________
    I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process.....
    SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE
    Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1

  • ObraikObraik ChristchurchPosts: 7,261Member



    Originally posted by iskareot

    Then that is to the entire NGE playerbase.   Ooops... guess what I can prove the NGE is sub-par, I can also prove that they wanted to simplify the game with the NGE concept.   I can also prove that they felt the prior game was to hard, complex and was "much to much reading"...
    The question is can you prove anywhere that the NGE was made to be complex and hard lol.
    See, my thought is the game itself is a insult.  So then the effect of people playing it I think are more accepting and or the most gulable gaming crowd I have ever seen.   I can prove this though... see that is the real issue.
    These are not just "made up" things I am saying... I am saying that people in this game RIGHT NOW accept more lies, more downfalls, more issues then I have ever seen in any other game.   I have seen alot since my old BBS days online too.   The point is, what one considers a insult some may consider a fact.. OR better yet they may consider it "The Norm" if you will.
    See what's great is that I can do that here... You can actually say how you feel, insulting you does nothing for me... so don't worry.   Your playing the game and defending it... you do all of this to yourself just fine without anyone helping you.   So do not think anyone here needs to really insult anyone.     The NGErs have thier great game, but oddly it is funny to see them defend it and then go back into the game to see the 4 people standing in Talus starport trying to hold that defense.
    Again... and to be clear here... I think a insult can be viewed as several different things in this forum now.   But not because of US, but because of SOE and the staff...
    Hey look THEY MADE THE BED.... you should expect some issues with this, it's almost normal fallout at this point.
    Obriak you would have more of a leg to stand on in this debate if there was somthing to win.... BUT there is not, the NGE is a proven failure.   
    I sometimes look at this like David Koresh and his followers...    If you think about it for a second there is some things that seem the same in the following measures...
    People followed him without any dissagreement or even challenged or questioned what he did, making common sense and what we know as logic -- thrown out the door in most cases...
    Did we all think he was nuts?   Sure.. I would say the majority of people did...  In fact people outside of his group thought he should be examined if any thing for following and trusting thier beliefs.. the thought of having 12 year old wives and 100 sons is a bit extreme and or not as humane as MOST think based on society today.
    So in effect because he believed a certain way people thought he was insane...and or crazy based on fact presented to them.
    Well based on facts presented to me about the NGE I feel that most the of the NGE playerbase is the most accepting, non-challenging, following without question, gulable gaming playerbase I have ever seen.
    Now am I wrong?  Is it wrong to voice this? Based on the info I have , and what I have seen myself I think I can prove this even if I need to.
    Like it or not, I can debate this all day and all night with facts and even opinions from the peopel that make the freaking game or DID MAKE IT.   
    So if you take it as a insult that the NGE is a sub-par MMO with more of a bad rep, backed up by facts then maybe you should look at what your playing and involved with because if you think that the NGE is some sort of global gaming achievment in the industry then please prove this to me.
    Because short of it proving to people of WHAT NOT TO DO I think I can safely say you can't.



    So, by your definition, playing a less complex game = a less complex person that can't handle complex activites?  If so then I really have to laugh (kinda am already ;) )

    IT'S A GAME, not an intelligence test and you can't make huge stereotypes like you just did based on game choices.  There are plenty of people out there that say anyone playing a computer game lacks intelligence and is sub-par in society.

    image

    image

  • iskareotiskareot Crown Point, INPosts: 2,143Member



    Originally posted by Obraik



    Originally posted by iskareot

    Then that is to the entire NGE playerbase.   Ooops... guess what I can prove the NGE is sub-par, I can also prove that they wanted to simplify the game with the NGE concept.   I can also prove that they felt the prior game was to hard, complex and was "much to much reading"...
    The question is can you prove anywhere that the NGE was made to be complex and hard lol.
    See, my thought is the game itself is a insult.  So then the effect of people playing it I think are more accepting and or the most gulable gaming crowd I have ever seen.   I can prove this though... see that is the real issue.
    These are not just "made up" things I am saying... I am saying that people in this game RIGHT NOW accept more lies, more downfalls, more issues then I have ever seen in any other game.   I have seen alot since my old BBS days online too.   The point is, what one considers a insult some may consider a fact.. OR better yet they may consider it "The Norm" if you will.
    See what's great is that I can do that here... You can actually say how you feel, insulting you does nothing for me... so don't worry.   Your playing the game and defending it... you do all of this to yourself just fine without anyone helping you.   So do not think anyone here needs to really insult anyone.     The NGErs have thier great game, but oddly it is funny to see them defend it and then go back into the game to see the 4 people standing in Talus starport trying to hold that defense.
    Again... and to be clear here... I think a insult can be viewed as several different things in this forum now.   But not because of US, but because of SOE and the staff...
    Hey look THEY MADE THE BED.... you should expect some issues with this, it's almost normal fallout at this point.
    Obriak you would have more of a leg to stand on in this debate if there was somthing to win.... BUT there is not, the NGE is a proven failure.   
    I sometimes look at this like David Koresh and his followers...    If you think about it for a second there is some things that seem the same in the following measures...
    People followed him without any dissagreement or even challenged or questioned what he did, making common sense and what we know as logic -- thrown out the door in most cases...
    Did we all think he was nuts?   Sure.. I would say the majority of people did...  In fact people outside of his group thought he should be examined if any thing for following and trusting thier beliefs.. the thought of having 12 year old wives and 100 sons is a bit extreme and or not as humane as MOST think based on society today.
    So in effect because he believed a certain way people thought he was insane...and or crazy based on fact presented to them.
    Well based on facts presented to me about the NGE I feel that most the of the NGE playerbase is the most accepting, non-challenging, following without question, gulable gaming playerbase I have ever seen.
    Now am I wrong?  Is it wrong to voice this? Based on the info I have , and what I have seen myself I think I can prove this even if I need to.
    Like it or not, I can debate this all day and all night with facts and even opinions from the peopel that make the freaking game or DID MAKE IT.   
    So if you take it as a insult that the NGE is a sub-par MMO with more of a bad rep, backed up by facts then maybe you should look at what your playing and involved with because if you think that the NGE is some sort of global gaming achievment in the industry then please prove this to me.
    Because short of it proving to people of WHAT NOT TO DO I think I can safely say you can't.


    So, by your definition, playing a less complex game = a less complex person that can't handle complex activites?  If so then I really have to laugh (kinda am already ;) )

    IT'S A GAME, not an intelligence test and you can't make huge stereotypes like you just did based on game choices.  There are plenty of people out there that say anyone playing a computer game lacks intelligence and is sub-par in society.


    And you have just made my point.

    Thank you for doing so... sure it's lame to suck you in like that but it was worth it.

    By all means it's what YOU EXPECT AND ACCEPT as the pitfall for what you do now isn't it?

    What you should be laughing at right now is the fact you spend 15.00 on this product... sure it's just a lunch but still.   That to me is more funny then anything said at this point.

     

    It's funny but that phrase "You are what you eat", type concept comes to mind actually.

    Funny how that all works..
     

    ______________________________
    I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process.....
    SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE
    Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1

  • ObraikObraik ChristchurchPosts: 7,261Member



    Originally posted by iskareot

    And you have just made my point.
    Thank you for doing so... sure it's lame to suck you in like that but it was worth it.
    By all means it's what YOU EXPECT AND ACCEPT as the pitfall for what you do now isn't it?
    What you should be laughing at right now is the fact you spend 15.00 on this product... sure it's just a lunch but still.   That to me is more funny then anything said at this point.
     
    It's funny but that phrase "You are what you eat", type concept comes to mind actually.
    Funny how that all works..
     



    And what point would that be?  That you're stereotyping based on some vague theory?    Or that I called it a less complex game now?  Compared to Pre-cu, yes it is.  Compared to the CU though it's probably as, if not more, complex.

    image

    image

  • iskareotiskareot Crown Point, INPosts: 2,143Member



    Originally posted by Obraik


    Originally posted by iskareot

    And you have just made my point.

    Thank you for doing so... sure it's lame to suck you in like that but it was worth it.

    By all means it's what YOU EXPECT AND ACCEPT as the pitfall for what you do now isn't it?

    What you should be laughing at right now is the fact you spend 15.00 on this product... sure it's just a lunch but still.   That to me is more funny then anything said at this point.

     

    It's funny but that phrase "You are what you eat", type concept comes to mind actually.

    Funny how that all works..
     



    And what point would that be?  That you're stereotyping based on some vague theory?    Or that I called it a less complex game now?  Compared to Pre-cu, yes it is.  Compared to the CU though it's probably as, if not more, complex.  

    (complexity based on bad mechanics does not count sorry lol)


     

    First off:  Stereotyping is not a horrible thing.

    "IT'S A GAME, not an intelligence test and you can't make huge stereotypes like you just did based on game choices.  There are plenty of people out there that say anyone playing a computer game lacks intelligence and is sub-par in society."

    That above is your opinion....not mine.  Is that a insult?  Yep ... I think it is.. or can be seen as such.

    Again this is a matter of opinion what one thinks is a insult... I think it's one for you to think that this version of the game takes any intelligence at all.    I find that offensive actually.

    Even compared to the CU this has nothing to hold to it... from the professions and skills, to the combat , to the crafting and resources and results, to the options you had and things needed to make things... the NGE is nowhere near what you even had in the CU -- crap in the CU the professions alone make this a null statement.

    The theory is not vauge.. you make it sound like the NGE was not made to make things easier or more simple?

    Who are you kidding?  Yourself?  Not me thats for sure...I saw what was said, don't forget that.. sure you can fool the NGErs maybe man but not me lol, save that for them.

    Again... I am sticking the concept phrase "You are what you eat".

    It rather fits this quite well.

    The downside is that the NGE is a marked failure and mistake -- even by it's makers... SO what does that make the current playerbase?

    Like I said ...

    "You are what you eat" comes to mind.....    Take it anyway you want.

    Trust me when I say, I won't follow the teachings of David Koresh either... based on his concepts..I THINK he is nuts... based on society most/.... I did say MOST people might think the same as I do about him.

    Of course there is people out in the world that always thought a "Pinto" car was safe too, just don't ask the ones that got hit in the back that question I guess.



     

    ______________________________
    I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process.....
    SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE
    Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1

  • Beatnik59Beatnik59 Chicago, ILPosts: 2,225Member Uncommon



    Originally posted by Stradden


    If you want to talk about the NGE and how much you dislike it. Fine, but we don't need 1,000 threads on the subject.

    Cheers
    Jon Wood




    Too bad.

    If you don't want us here Mr. Wood, then ban us.  You don't need a reason, as it is your website, and you can do whatever you want if we are causing you a headache.  We'll just go to OGaming, or IGN.

    Need I remind you though that the two forums were your idea, not ours.  How can you set aside a forum for talking about our dislike of the NGE and not have 1000 threads on various aspects of it?

    The day our one general forum became two was the day that any attempt for polite discourse was thrown out the window.  The best you can hope for at this point is to just give suspensions out to anyone who is pro-NGE and posts here, or anti-NGE and posts there.

    That being said, I would like to request that Obraik, Pirrg, Squidi, and some other troublemakers in the Veteran's Refuge be subject to a zero tolerance 10 day suspension for posting in the Veteran's Refuge.  Those who are in the Pro-NGE/SWG current gameplay camp can suggest names that annoy them as well.

    It would be nice if we could have found a way to get along, but that all ended the moment the general discussion was bifurcated by your staff.  The only way this is going to be resolved at this point is to issue out mass bannings of Pre-CU veterans, in which case we go to OGaming, IGN, Massive, and the like; or start handing out suspensions to the likes of the famebaiters here like Obraik and Pirrg.

    __________________________
    "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
    --Arcken

    "...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
    --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.

    "It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
    --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE

  • StraddenStradden Managing Editor Halifax, NSPosts: 6,696Member

    Ok, I will attempt to clarify things once again.

    First of all, the rules are the rules and will be enforced to the best of our abilities to all concerned. I don't care if it's pro-NGE players bashing Anti- or the other way around. Rule breaking is rule breaking. Do things sometimes slip through the cracks? Yes. On both sides. We're not perfect, and I have never implied that we were.

    The truth of the matter is that more often than not, it is this forum that causes a great number of issues. That's why I placed this sticky here.

    Personal attacks WILL NOT be tolerated. It's as simple as that. If you feel that you can not express your feelings without attacking someone personally, then you will likley be warned, and have your posts deleted. I didn't split these forums to make a "happy place" and an "angry place". 

    Having a differing opinion doesn't necessarily make a rule violation. It's when the conversation becomes less than civil that rules are broken. Just because someone likes or dislikes something that you feel the opposite way about, however valid the reasons, doesn't give carte blanche to flame, or name-call.

    I have said it before, and I will say it again. Everyone has the right to express their opinions here, as long as they follow the rules. I will defend your rights to be angry just as much as I will the rights of those who still play the game. All that I ask is that both sides remain civil. Currently, that's not happening. 

    Cheers

    Jon "Stradden" Wood

       

     

    Cheers,
    Jon Wood
    Managing Editor
    MMORPG.com

  • Beatnik59Beatnik59 Chicago, ILPosts: 2,225Member Uncommon



    Originally posted by Stradden

    Ok, I will attempt to clarify things once again.
    First of all, the rules are the rules and will be enforced to the best of our abilities to all concerned. I don't care if it's pro-NGE players bashing Anti- or the other way around. Rule breaking is rule breaking. Do things sometimes slip through the cracks? Yes. On both sides. We're not perfect, and I have never implied that we were.
    The truth of the matter is that more often than not, it is this forum that causes a great number of issues. That's why I placed this sticky here.
    Personal attacks WILL NOT be tolerated. It's as simple as that. If you feel that you can not express your feelings without attacking someone personally, then you will likley be warned, and have your posts deleted. I didn't split these forums to make a "happy place" and an "angry place". 
    Having a differing opinion doesn't necessarily make a rule violation. It's when the conversation becomes less than civil that rules are broken. Just because someone likes or dislikes something that you feel the opposite way about, however valid the reasons, doesn't give carte blanche to flame, or name-call.
    I have said it before, and I will say it again. Everyone has the right to express their opinions here, as long as they follow the rules. I will defend your rights to be angry just as much as I will the rights of those who still play the game. All that I ask is that both sides remain civil. Currently, that's not happening. 
    Cheers
    Jon "Stradden" Wood
       
     



    Look, we who enjoy the classic, launch game have no desire, nor any inclination to visit the Current Gameplay forum, because we know we don't belong there.

    However, there are some who enjoy the new game who are not content talking about the new game on the forum for the new game.  They must come here, and disrupt the sanctity of our community, to argue with us at will, with no thoughts of peaceful discourse, or the disruption their presence in a Veteran's Refuge thread causes.  In fact, I would argue that they post in the Veteran's Refuge specifically because they know it is disruptive.

    It doesn't even matter if Obraik flames, or Pirrg trolls.  Their very presence in the Veterans Refuge causes flames, because of the deep insult many of us feel toward SOE's handling of the situation.

    I think the best course of action is for the Pro-NGE lobby to cease posting in the Veterans Refuge on their own accord.  But since they will not, I request that you prevent Obraik, Pirrg, and other instigators from participating in the Veteran's Refuge, and only the Veteran's Refuge.

    That is, if you really want peace.

    __________________________
    "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
    --Arcken

    "...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
    --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.

    "It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
    --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE

  • ShadowLordsShadowLords somewhere, CTPosts: 186Member



    Originally posted by Stradden

    Ok, I will attempt to clarify things once again.
    First of all, the rules are the rules and will be enforced to the best of our abilities to all concerned. I don't care if it's pro-NGE players bashing Anti- or the other way around. Rule breaking is rule breaking. Do things sometimes slip through the cracks? Yes. On both sides. We're not perfect, and I have never implied that we were.
    The truth of the matter is that more often than not, it is this forum that causes a great number of issues. That's why I placed this sticky here.
    Personal attacks WILL NOT be tolerated. It's as simple as that. If you feel that you can not express your feelings without attacking someone personally, then you will likley be warned, and have your posts deleted. I didn't split these forums to make a "happy place" and an "angry place". 
    Having a differing opinion doesn't necessarily make a rule violation. It's when the conversation becomes less than civil that rules are broken. Just because someone likes or dislikes something that you feel the opposite way about, however valid the reasons, doesn't give carte blanche to flame, or name-call.
    I have said it before, and I will say it again. Everyone has the right to express their opinions here, as long as they follow the rules. I will defend your rights to be angry just as much as I will the rights of those who still play the game. All that I ask is that both sides remain civil. Currently, that's not happening. 
    Cheers
    Jon "Stradden" Wood


    Well the rules are being applied a little one sided in my opinion and I try VERY hard to be objective.

    However, there are several things you need to see here.


    • A large part of the MMO gaming community are visiting the SWG forums here. Some more than others, but many do visit this site even if they never played SWG.
    • The number of proNGErs posting here is SIGNIFICANTLY LESS than the anti$OE/$LA/$LEC people. Obriak has even admitted this in one of his posts in this thread as he said he is bored posting in the "Current" forum.
    • I have also noticed there has been alot of new "Former SWG: Refugees" posting recently which is adding to your (MMORPG.com's) subcriber list. This gives you (MMORPG.com) a larger audience of people coming here to your website which inturn gives all the "other" MMOs more exposure, which in turn is a huge marketing tool for you people at MMORPG.com.
    • The former playerbase of SWG is NOT going to go away. Nor will we relent in our attacks on $OE or $LA. Why? Well I for one invested some $1,400.00 of my own hard earned money and some 3,900 hours of my time developing my character only to have $OE and $LA shit on me.
    • In regards to "flaming" in the "Refugee" forum ... I believe it is fair to say that SWG is FAR from the game it used to be. The  size of the playerbase is ALSO significantly smaller than what it used to be in preCU. These FACTS can NOT be disputed rationally. But yet you have proNGErs posting in the "Refugee" forum that SWG has "never been better". So when this type of thing occurs it is with out ANY doubt in my mind they are posting these OBVIOUS lies with the sole purpose of stiring up trouble. The ONLY other alternative is that they are too immature to acknoledge the truth for whatever personal reason they may have.
    • Regardless of what Obriak says, I have seen and read posts from proNGErs insulting antiNGErs. I have also seen the same in reverse. The only solution that I can see is one warning then a 30 day ban for a second offense and the perm ban to make it 3 strikes you're out. However, the Staff at MMORPG.com has to understand that there is a difference between discussing subjects like whether or not Jedi needs to be in the game or whether or not there will ever be preCU servers, as opposed to, "the playerbase size has never been better in SWG" or that "the NGE is the best incarnation of SWG ever". The last two examples can be clearly and easily proven false. Statement like this, IN the "Refugee" forum especially, are designed to disrupt as they are NOT based on ANY fact in todays current version of the game.

    All I can say is that I hope I got my message to the MMORPG.coms Staff in a way that they can understand how we feel.

  • nthnaounnthnaoun newport news, VAPosts: 1,438Member

    Shadow,

    Some of what you say is true, but most of it is subjective and is open to opinion. Whether the NGE is better than the Pre-CU or the other way arround is opinion, not fact. A bigger playerbase does not make the Pre-CU game a better game than NGE, because one mans trash is anothers treasure. So saying a particular version of a game is better is just opinion. So it is not stirring up trouble to post as such in the Refuge section if they are Vets themselves. It is okay to have a differing opinion without it being an attack and that is what Stradden is trying to get across to you. Keep also in mind that subscription numbers to all MMORPG's but WoW drop and keep dropping over a period of years, so even if Pre-CU stayed around, people would have quit anyways out of boredom and many people has stated as much in the General Discussion forum over the past year. No I admit, most MMO's tend to level off at some point which SWG didn't do. I don't deny the fact that the NGE is a bad business move, because it was and it cost SOE tons of money. But the NGE still may be better to those that play the game. Let people have their own opinion without attacking them, that is all Stradden is trying to say. Sometimes people who think they are right and justified need to swallow their pride and just let people think or feel what they want.

  • iskareotiskareot Crown Point, INPosts: 2,143Member



    Originally posted by Stradden

    Ok, I will attempt to clarify things once again.
    First of all, the rules are the rules and will be enforced to the best of our abilities to all concerned. I don't care if it's pro-NGE players bashing Anti- or the other way around. Rule breaking is rule breaking. Do things sometimes slip through the cracks? Yes. On both sides. We're not perfect, and I have never implied that we were.
    The truth of the matter is that more often than not, it is this forum that causes a great number of issues. That's why I placed this sticky here.
    Personal attacks WILL NOT be tolerated. It's as simple as that. If you feel that you can not express your feelings without attacking someone personally, then you will likley be warned, and have your posts deleted. I didn't split these forums to make a "happy place" and an "angry place". 
    Having a differing opinion doesn't necessarily make a rule violation. It's when the conversation becomes less than civil that rules are broken. Just because someone likes or dislikes something that you feel the opposite way about, however valid the reasons, doesn't give carte blanche to flame, or name-call.
    I have said it before, and I will say it again. Everyone has the right to express their opinions here, as long as they follow the rules. I will defend your rights to be angry just as much as I will the rights of those who still play the game. All that I ask is that both sides remain civil. Currently, that's not happening. 
    Cheers
    Jon "Stradden" Wood
       
     



    I understand what you are saying, I think that people confuse statements of opinion with flames though.

    No matter how they are written.   I know that broad statements of opinion can and HAVE been seen as flames to some people, I should know -- I find out in our grapevine that people have reported me for it..

    I actually like being reported at times, that tells me I am doing somthing right in the means of making someone get mad enough to actually do somthing... now if I can just get them to go post on the SOE boards just how bad this product is that is at least one more good thing for that person to quit accepting a sub-par product and demanding a good one.

    Like in the big pants world the phrase is "If your not being sued by someone your doing somthing wrong"..lol

    I do think that in ways, people hate facing some facts... I myself hate facing the fact the game is over, done and worthless.    I'd like to see the real game come back one day... however I do know that is just not going to happen.

    I have had countless dialog with some people at SOE, other places and I have realized the only thing left to do is warn anyone that is left, or that is currently playing to wake up and smell the coffee on this product.

    Until then I will post here out of passion and frustration.   Mr. Smedley himself knows I post here... he knows I have be-rated this product and he has not even argued one time since the "mistake" and "failue" has been made.

    In case anyone has noticed, this is one if not THE most under promoted LEC product there is.   ALSO SOE is not out there slamming this at E3 or filling 30 second spots on TV right now on major networks.

    Right now this is known as one big mistake and embarassment, let alone failure in the public eye.

    I think that our posts from the HUNDREDS of thousands of people that quit told them this.   Like I said before it does take any type of smart gamer or stupid one to figure out how bad this game is.

    It may relay into a "insult" but that is just the plain and simple truth that the game is a wreck.

    ______________________________
    I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process.....
    SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE
    Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1

  • ShadowLordsShadowLords somewhere, CTPosts: 186Member



    Originally posted by nthnaoun

    Shadow,
    Some of what you say is true, but most of it is subjective and is open to opinion. Whether the NGE is better than the Pre-CU or the other way arround is opinion, not fact. A bigger playerbase does not make the Pre-CU game a better game than NGE, because one mans trash is anothers treasure. So saying a particular version of a game is better is just opinion. So it is not stirring up trouble to post as such in the Refuge section if they are Vets themselves. It is okay to have a differing opinion without it being an attack and that is what Stradden is trying to get across to you. Keep also in mind that subscription numbers to all MMORPG's but WoW drop and keep dropping over a period of years, so even if Pre-CU stayed around, people would have quit anyways out of boredom and many people has stated as much in the General Discussion forum over the past year. No I admit, most MMO's tend to level off at some point which SWG didn't do. I don't deny the fact that the NGE is a bad business move, because it was and it cost SOE tons of money. But the NGE still may be better to those that play the game. Let people have their own opinion without attacking them, that is all Stradden is trying to say. Sometimes people who think they are right and justified need to swallow their pride and just let people think or feel what they want.



    YOU and others may WISH it to be an opinion, but it is NOT.

    The FACT is, that IF the NGE was worth playing then there would NOT have been a loss of some 75 percent (or more) of the playerbase.

    If you can't handle the TRUTH or want to legitimize the NGE then you need to go back to the "Current" forum. I am NOT debating whether someone has the right to like the NGE. I am debating ... NO ... I am stating a fact that the NGE is garbage and will always be garbage. The size or lack of size of the playerbase in this instance proves I am right. I am sorry for being direct but I am tired of this BS.

    Whether or not the NGE is, was, or ever has been successful is NOT debatable. It CLEARLY has NOT been ... ever.

    Whether or not the playerbase is as large as preNGE is not debatable. It is SIGNIFICANTLY smaller.

    Whether or not the NGE is an enjoyable game (AS A WHOLE) is not debatable. It is not enjoyable to the OVERwhelming majority of people that have played it.

    Whether or not someone does like or has the right to LIKE the NGE is not the subject here. I would agree with you about the NGE being an "opinion" IF the playerbase level remained the same or especially if the numbers increased even slightly.

    If someone said something like, "I like SWG and the NGE because it is still Star Wars." it would be a statement I can accept wholeheartedly. This is an opinion and it is cool. But do NOT try to pass off the NGE as something that it isn't. That will just stir up trouble and should be considered flame bait. Thus a violation of the RoC.

    Your statement is directed one way. It is about time it went both ways. After all this is the "Refugee" forum.

  • iskareotiskareot Crown Point, INPosts: 2,143Member



    Originally posted by ShadowLords



    Originally posted by nthnaoun

    Shadow,
    Some of what you say is true, but most of it is subjective and is open to opinion. Whether the NGE is better than the Pre-CU or the other way arround is opinion, not fact. A bigger playerbase does not make the Pre-CU game a better game than NGE, because one mans trash is anothers treasure. So saying a particular version of a game is better is just opinion. So it is not stirring up trouble to post as such in the Refuge section if they are Vets themselves. It is okay to have a differing opinion without it being an attack and that is what Stradden is trying to get across to you. Keep also in mind that subscription numbers to all MMORPG's but WoW drop and keep dropping over a period of years, so even if Pre-CU stayed around, people would have quit anyways out of boredom and many people has stated as much in the General Discussion forum over the past year. No I admit, most MMO's tend to level off at some point which SWG didn't do. I don't deny the fact that the NGE is a bad business move, because it was and it cost SOE tons of money. But the NGE still may be better to those that play the game. Let people have their own opinion without attacking them, that is all Stradden is trying to say. Sometimes people who think they are right and justified need to swallow their pride and just let people think or feel what they want.


    YOU and others may WISH it to be an opinion, but it is NOT.

    The FACT is, that IF the NGE was worth playing then there would NOT have been a loss of some 75 percent (or more) of the playerbase.

    If you can't handle the TRUTH or want to legitimize the NGE then you need to go back to the "Current" forum. I am NOT debating whether someone has the right to like the NGE. I am debating ... NO ... I am stating a fact that the NGE is garbage and will always be garbage. The size or lack of size of the playerbase in this instance proves I am right. I am sorry for being direct but I am tired of this BS.

    Whether or not the NGE is, was, or ever has been successful is NOT debateable. It CLEARLY has NOT been ... ever.

    Whether or not the playerbase is as large as preNGE is not debatable.

    Whether or not the NGE is an enjoyable game is not debatable. It is not to the OVERwhelming majority.

    Whether or not someone does like or has the right to LIKE the NGE is not the subject here. I would agree with you about it being an "opinion" IF the playerbase level remained the same or especially if the numbers increased even slightly.

    If someone said something like, "I like SWG and the NGE because it is still Star Wars." it would be a statement I can accept wholeheartedly. This is an opinion and it is cool. But do NOT try to pass off the NGE as something that it isn't. That will just stir up trouble and should be considered flame bait.

    Your statement is directed one way. It is about time it went both ways. After all this is the "Refugee" forum.



    See and thats just it.... it's not a opinon that the NGE is a failure and a mistake.

    Be very clear here about the way you said this.

    It is a stated by the company as such.  The president has stated this product as such.

    Now then , sure by all means someone could say that the NGE is the only way they could be a Jedi or be successful, which I do think is true for alot of the NGE playerbase... THAT STILL DOES NOT MAKE IT A SUCCESS.

    Success can be based on profit, quality, society and it's reference to the "said" product.

    So based on FACT not opinion this games version right now is a failure.   By sub counts, by reviews, by all means when the freaking president sends you a email and makes ANY kind of excuse about the product and calls it a mistake you have to take it as such.

    i.e. let's think about the product itself... it's sales, it's fortune and it's profitablity.    Which at this point, they are changing the name one last time to try to get some people of a different sort in it.

    IT is a fact the NGE is a failure, not a matter of opinion at this point.

    If it was a success, trust me you would hear about it.. you can bet on that.

    AGAIN:  Yes, I am sure there is some people in the NGE that think it's great... but there was also people that thought the "PINTO" was a safe car... since they never had a crash in one or were hit in the rear end.  ...needless to say we know the real result and truth of the matter.

    ______________________________
    I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process.....
    SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE
    Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1

  • MaxziusMaxzius Cleveland, OHPosts: 248Member



    Originally posted by Beatnik59

     

    Look, we who enjoy the classic, launch game have no desire, nor any inclination to visit the Current Gameplay forum, because we know we don't belong there.

    However, there are some who enjoy the new game who are not content talking about the new game on the forum for the new game.  They must come here, and disrupt the sanctity of our community, to argue with us at will, with no thoughts of peaceful discourse, or the disruption their presence in a Veteran's Refuge thread causes.




    This is exactly the problem, whether mmorpg.com wants to admit it or not.

    =====================
    -Just My Thoughts-
    Max

    image

    Currently playing: Nothing

  • SelothSeloth Spokane, WAPosts: 388Member

    Greetings.

    Generally iI would consider myself a luker, watcher, etc. I come to the Refuge Section to see what is going on. to see what new and "interesting" ideas are being pushed about on a great manay subjects related to SWG, yes, especially the OLD game.

    To be honest, i think there is a few problems with the small section of a pretty vast site that covers alot of groud.

    A. the whole description of this area Mr. Wood jsut screams flame wars. "A place for disgruntled former and current SWG players to talk about the game that was and the game that now is, as well as for newcomers who are curious about the issues surrounding the changes that this game has undergone.:

    you call this a place for the disgruntled former players and current one to talk about both the game past and the new version.

    In my OPINION (see not a fact), this is begging for it. oil and water if you will.

    B. It is clear that some people enjoy the new version and feel that they must bounce in to here (hey you invited them too remember) to defend the game. Some of them are blantantly annying (pirg), others frankly try to sound reasonable but really cloak themselves, or try to convice others that history of the game is not what it is.

    C. It is equally as clear that there are still to this day PLENTY of hurt feelings and broken ingame (only there i hope) dreams that were affected radically by NGE.

    D. It is equally clear that the consumer of games liek this have enough anger (hate? memory?) of what has happen to this one game that when the mear mention of SoE in partnership with any other company (Vangard), or even a hint of it (STO) that seriously deep emotions come into play. Emotions and passion are some of the greatest motivators in human history and right now in this gaming indusrty there is alot of negative ones erupting when NGE and or SoE are brought up.

    E. For good or evil when a staff memeber states his opinion all the disclaimers in the world are NOT going to stop the fact that a member of this staff, posted to THIS section what they felt about the audience in here.  When a staff member voices thier opinion it should and MUST be in private. Staff members by thier very association should never voice an opinion that can be seen as a negative to your customer base. If one of my Customer Support techs said that product a or group b use was bad or "moaners" I would have to fire them on the spot as they were representing the company, on the compnaies dime, using the companies resources to negatively represent something. I know my bosses want our custoimer to come to us and leave with an enjoyable experience when dealign with the staff, I hope your staff understands this concept (and yes I bet they all do!)

    To the gentleman that was saying calliing NGE a failure was an opinion, i would agree with you save for the fact that as cited above and other places, SoE has stated that it was/is a failure on many levels, "neutral" reviews of NGE are less than stellar. You may enjoy the game and that is great, heck I still play and love Anarchy Online.

    okay enough, sorry to ramble.

    Honestly Jon I come to your forums to find news and things about games. It is a darn good resource, but this section is a battle ground partily from yoru own doing sir.

    Kent Schwertfeger

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